Lloyds TSB say charges aren't unfair. Help!

katie84

Hi everyone, I recently wrote to Lloyds TSB, to reclaim charges for exceeding my overdraft limit. I used a template I found on this site. Lloyds responded basically saying that their charges are fair. I attach both my letter, and their response. I'd be grateful for any advice,
Thank you.

My letter:

"Lloyds TSB Bank Plc.
25 Gresham St, London,
Greater London
EC2V 7HN.

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account number: xxxxxxxx Sort Code: xx-xx-xx

I am writing to request that you repay all the charges in relation to direct debits, unauthorised overdrafts, and standing orders that have been applied to my account in the past eight years.

I believe the fact that I have been incurring bank charges goes contrary to the aims of the Lending Code (Section 9) and Banking Conduct of Business Sourcebook (section 5.1.4 ‘in particular, a firm should deal fairly with a banking customer whom it has reason to believe is in financial difficulty’). My personal situation has been affected by the charges leaving me in financial hardship and I am writing to request that you take the following grounds into consideration:

I have recently lost my job, due to the closure of my place of work. I am £12,100 in debt, not including my student loan, and I am struggling now, more than ever before. Whilst I have been paying money into some accounts over the years, the interest has been much higher than the amount I could afford to repay, and I haven’t been able to make an impact. I am trying to consolidate my debt, and finally break out of this cycle, but I need all the help I can get. As you can see, I have recently completed a money transfer, clearing my overdraft, in order to save the interest I am paying, so that I can stay afloat, and decrease my debt. I hope this year is the last year I am in debt.

I have just set up my own business, but I am still trying to find customers. The dedication and the hours required by this, do not give me much time to do another job, in order to make ends meet. I am therefore living off my overdraft, in order to fund necessities, debts, and my business. I would be very grateful if you could help me in getting myself out of this. I have had to borrow money from family, in order to buy necessities, which is bringing me further and further into debt.

The charges total £329 and I kindly ask that you repay me the full amount.

Plus as I believe I have been unfairly deprived of the money I have calculated £108.78 interest at the statutory rate, the amount a court would award, and I ask that this be added to my claim to give a total of £437.78

I have attached a full schedule of the charges with this document.

I look forward to a full response to this letter within 14 days and if I do not receive a satisfactory response, I intend to pursue my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service or small claims court at the earliest opportunity.

Yours faithfully,"

I've attached their response in the links. I really need this money, as you can see from my letter to LTSB.

Page 1:
Page 2:

Thanks again!

Wywth

katie84 wrote: »

Hi everyone, I recently wrote to Lloyds TSB, to reclaim charges for exceeding my overdraft limit. I used a template I found on this site. Lloyds responded basically saying that their charges are fair. I attach both my letter, and their response. I'd be grateful for any advice,
Thank you.

My letter:

"Lloyds TSB Bank Plc.
25 Gresham St, London,
Greater London
EC2V 7HN.

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account number: xxxxxxxx Sort Code: xx-xx-xx

I am writing to request that you repay all the charges in relation to direct debits, unauthorised overdrafts, and standing orders that have been applied to my account in the past eight years.

I believe the fact that I have been incurring bank charges goes contrary to the aims of the Lending Code (Section 9) and Banking Conduct of Business Sourcebook (section 5.1.4 ‘in particular, a firm should deal fairly with a banking customer whom it has reason to believe is in financial difficulty’). My personal situation has been affected by the charges leaving me in financial hardship and I am writing to request that you take the following grounds into consideration:

I have recently lost my job, due to the closure of my place of work. I am £12,100 in debt, not including my student loan, and I am struggling now, more than ever before. Whilst I have been paying money into some accounts over the years, the interest has been much higher than the amount I could afford to repay, and I haven’t been able to make an impact. I am trying to consolidate my debt, and finally break out of this cycle, but I need all the help I can get. As you can see, I have recently completed a money transfer, clearing my overdraft, in order to save the interest I am paying, so that I can stay afloat, and decrease my debt. I hope this year is the last year I am in debt.

I have just set up my own business, but I am still trying to find customers. The dedication and the hours required by this, do not give me much time to do another job, in order to make ends meet. I am therefore living off my overdraft, in order to fund necessities, debts, and my business. I would be very grateful if you could help me in getting myself out of this. I have had to borrow money from family, in order to buy necessities, which is bringing me further and further into debt.

The charges total £329 and I kindly ask that you repay me the full amount.

Plus as I believe I have been unfairly deprived of the money I have calculated £108.78 interest at the statutory rate, the amount a court would award, and I ask that this be added to my claim to give a total of £437.78

I have attached a full schedule of the charges with this document.

I look forward to a full response to this letter within 14 days and if I do not receive a satisfactory response, I intend to pursue my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service or small claims court at the earliest opportunity.

Yours faithfully,"

I've attached their response in the links. I really need this money, as you can see from my letter to LTSB.

Page 1:
Page 2:

Thanks again!

The bank are entirely correct as far as any accusation of unfairness of their charges. If you want to argue otherwise, you'll have to convince a judge in court.

However, you may have a claim because of your financial situation.
I suggest you follow the bank's advice and call them so they can put you in touch with their "team of dedicated experts who can help you with your situation"

You could go to the FOS if you wanted, but they cannot rule on fairness or otherwise of charges (only a court can do that) and cannot force a bank to refund you the charges in this instance.



Edit: I can see a problem developing here with your claim for financial hardship.
You are attempting to reclaim charges from the last 8 years.
You say you have lost your job due to the closure of your work. When was this as that is usually a cause of a sudden drop in income (assuming you have not been able to find alternative employment). But this would mean you were in financial hardship from that point, not 8 years ago, so that is the point when any charges may be considered refundable.
However, in your case, I see that 3 years ago you were only "only working 1-2 shifts a week in barwork"
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2250539
I can't see the loss of that job having much impact on your income - in fact you may have ended up better off once benefit entitlement was considered.
And you were already in severe debt when you had the job 3 years ago according to your post.

dunstonh

The bank is correct. The banks won the court case and complaints about "unfair" bank charges are no longer considered. This is covered in the articles on this site. You must have used an obsolete template.

However, banks will consider refunds for people in current financial hardship. Not just refunds either. They can suspend charges as well. Hardship is defined by people in arrears, defaults are unable to buy priority items to live.

katie84

Thank you both for replying. Wywth, I was only working those shifts at the time, but things changed since then. The job I lost was as Assistant Manager in a restaurant. Any money I was making, was invested in developing my business. The business is still at zero, and I also now have no income, further to my debt.
I will contact them and see what they say. As it was the unarranged overdraft fees, and not the overdraft usage fees, I was under the impression that they were still paying out.
Thanks again.

katie84

Hi again guys. I've spoken to Lloyds today, and they said they can't refund the unplanned overdraft fees. Is there no way to get these charges back? It's about £400, and I am really struggling at the moment. Would writing to the Financial Ombudsman help? Many thanks.

dunstonh

Is there no way to get these charges back?

No.

Would writing to the Financial Ombudsman help?

No. Since the banks won the court case, the FOS will not take on complaints about unfair bank charges (it says so on their website).

The banks will only look at refunds as goodwill gestures only. The FOS cannot force them to refund (although it will encourage them to be fair with hardship cases or where the application of charges was wrong). If you dont meet their financial hardship criteria then its game over.

roonaldo

katie84 wrote: »

Would writing to the Financial Ombudsman help? Many thanks.

Not sure how FOS can help you here, if they are not deemed to be unfair and they are correct, how is there any wrong doing?

The other posts are giving you accurate advice unfortunately for you.

katie84

Ok thanks everyone. Natwest did refund me the charges, although Lloyds didn't. But having said that, Lloyds' were significantly higher. Thanks again.