New career in I.T

Caroline_a

One of the problems with saying that you want to work in IT is that it's a bit like saying 'I want to work in agriculture..' There are so many different aspects of it and so many routes in that it's impossible to give a correct answer. I work 'in IT', as in I work for a well-known IT company that does both hardware and software. However, we have one (outsourced) IT support person on site and he is on a 6 month contract from another country, after which we will swap him for another person on a 6 month contract!

The rest of us are the typical mix you would find in a fast-moving company - accounts, admin, sales, sales support, engineering and customer support, etc etc. Yet we all work in IT. IT sales... that tends to be very lucrative, but cut-throat and quick burn-out. IT support doesn't get paid much these days, it's often just a grunt job.

bluesnake

Print Screen, no rudeness taken. Each team has a manager, but this manager is responsible for the functioning of the team on a day to day performance basis e.g a database team.

His manger looks after a few teams (eg, database team, applications team and programmers - the software squad), has some input in long term strategy planning, and budget spending too.

His manger will be in charge of long term strategy programs, budget allocations, hiring/firing, including architects, external contracts, the software squad, bids etc.

His manager, the IT director, deals with the board and implements the boards way of working, hires outside consultancy groups and in charge of software, hardware, architects, and projects departments.

We can have multi-million pound projects running, which due to lack of experience, continually changing face of IT, demand a first time fix, with no downtime.

They way it is run, promotes quite a bit of in house squabbling, posturing, no one is trusted, and a big blame culture. The answer to most mistakes is to limit the person from making that mistake again by removing his ability to do that work, or if it is a contractor fired. We need the political savvy to access the purse strings and for their corporate speak.

So how comes they need your team then?

Outsourcing companies have only taken what they want and left the crud and nasty old stuff behind. If anything fails, more often than not we take the blame, and if outside companies can't do the work due to lack of skills, or not in contract, we are forced to step in and becomes our responsibility - crazy eh? Just beating a stick till the job gets done.

If management get consultants in for major changes and projects do your team just look after the daily running of things and resolve any problems?

Yes, although half of the new stuff is now outsourced, and we have no contact, and no training. We look after some day to day running. We do not look after the san or vmware platform, but are responsible for storage, and the windows servers, but if the san or VM platform has trouble management turn to us first. Monitoring of all the switches is done by an external company, but we are responsible if they go down and the length of time they are down. When the monitoring company mess up, we are responsible because we did not find out via other means that thing went wrong. If applications fail then we also resume responsibility, only have a working knowledge of the product, no design and little implementation knowledge, as all is guarded closely by the supplier.

Does that not affect your development?

No development. All new projects go outside, No involvement, often no handover or training. Things just happen, someone will just turn up with some new software or product and we get told on the day this person is here to do .....

So if you ask to go on a course say to implement and administer Server 2012, management will say no need for you to do that. We'll send you on the cheaper administering Server 2012 and get the consultants to actually do the upgrade.

Consultant will be doing the upgrade. No courses until after the upgrade, so it can be determined exactly what is needed to be done. Then one of four things: (a) no courses as it is similar to the old version but perhaps some cross training???, (b) send one person on a course and give him the responsibility on top of an already a huge workload, but no extra cash, (c) if it is a new product that you have to babysit 24/7, just hire someone. (d) if it is a replacement product, hire someone new then downgrade the old persons job at the next round of restructures

If it is a large rollout like windows 7 on desktops, consultancy firm brought in to rollout and support the new desktops, while the existing staff support the old. In the 2 years it takes staff to rollout, some old staff will have left and some of the new rollout team will be encouraged to join, become team leaders.

DKLS

ringo_24601 wrote: »

Thankfully, my little corner of IT (healthcare IT) seems reasonably immune from that.

Likewise Ringo, its so much better spotting a niche and going for that, I am also in Healthcare IT and I have to say its been a case of what recession? for the last 5 years, with regular pay rises and contract rates that are hugely attractive.

Where I work now theres is a big Oracle change mgt programme going on and the guy sat next to me who is basically an oracle db dev is on £450 per day.

I am seeing some very good rates for Oracle and Salesforce dev at the moment as well as project and programme managers.

daman2k

The MCSE is NOT an entry level qualification, in fact it is a high level Microsoft qualification. You have said that you have no experience so even if you did somehow manage to pass your MCSE having never really worked on a server or desktops (depending on which MCSE you chose) in a office enviroment, many recruitment staff / employers will look at you as what they call a "Paper MCSE".
A Paper MCSE is someone who has the qualification but no experience in what they are doing, they tend to avoid these.


For instance in a 2012 server MCSE you are expected to know about powershell 3.0, server config, dns, dhcp, direct access, federation services, encryption, hyper v, ipv4 & ipv6, installation, group policy, active directory, wsus, replication, file servers, print servers, terminal services, remote desktop, & much more.

Any employer worth their salt will test you on these things at a job interview.

[Deleted User]

DKLS wrote: »

Likewise Ringo, its so much better spotting a niche and going for that, I am also in Healthcare IT and I have to say its been a case of what recession? for the last 5 years, with regular pay rises and contract rates that are hugely attractive.

Where I work now theres is a big Oracle change mgt programme going on and the guy sat next to me who is basically an oracle db dev is on £450 per day.

I am seeing some very good rates for Oracle and Salesforce dev at the moment as well as project and programme managers.

Salesforce.com is very 'in' at the moment for contractors. There's a wiki system called Confluence that is very good and I believe the money is nice (sadly, MS Sharepoint is far more popular)

DKLS - intersystems ensemble work pays £450 to £650 a day.. The NHS is providing it cheaply to hospitals (so they save a lot of money in licensing costs even if it costs them a lot to migrate)

Like I said, find a niche, there will be money in it

bluesnake

the problem is getting into niche markets, if you are 40 upwards and want to go into sap, it is very hard to get an opportunity. A colleague tried but the doors were closed.

I tried to go into the oracle/ms sql side some 15 years ago, and the management told me not to apply, because I had no experience, and that they would rather take an A level student with some exposure.

[Deleted User]

bluesnake wrote: »

the problem is getting into niche markets, if you are 40 upwards and want to go into sap, it is very hard to get an opportunity. A colleague tried but the doors were closed.

I tried to go into the oracle/ms sql side some 15 years ago, and the management told me not to apply, because I had no experience, and that they would rather take an A level student with some exposure.

I don't think it's an age thing (my firm has a load of older Sharepoint consultants).. it's just an experience thing. Also, an ability to blag, and show how your experience can be used in other areas.

Oracle would be a lot harder to get into than MS SQL (since MS provide nice free tools to get you started like SQL Server Express http://www.microsoft.com/web/platform/database.aspx and Oracle doesn't have a free tool). The whole Microsoft technology stack is easier to get into because Microsoft provide so many free tools.

I'm 33 .. i haven't got a clue how I'd get into SAP; other than finding a job somehow with a firm that used it, then learned from there.

keyser666

Some people are saying there is some great advice on here I beg to differ there are only a couple of posts that actually give good advice.

szam_ wrote: »

Good afternoon,

I work in the industry, and have been doing it as a hobby since leaving school.

First and foremost, i do not have any qualifications in I.T. Before i changed from retail, it was just something i did in my spare time and with a charity to help them out. A qualification isn't mandatory, but it helps if you know what you're talking about.

Firstly, decide which route you want to go down. I'm a jack of all trades at present, i know hardware and networking, to software and SQL. This is why i'm valued as a member of staff. Most people i've met are filtered into one of the two. We have an excellent engineer who knows anything and everything about networking, but next to nothing on bespoke software, and vice versa.

If it were up to me, i'd be doing the MSCE, i've not looked into CompTIA so i couldn't tell you the difference. I do see MSCE requirements for jobs more often however. If you want to get into networking, the CCNA might be the way to go. As an aside, ITIL might also come in handy, not only for starting out, but for later down the line too, i see this one cropping up more and more often and need to get it done myself.

I am however, looking at going down a Software Development route myself, and as such i am starting a degree later this year with the Open Uni. I also need to get my SQL qualifications, too. If this interests you, you can usually find foundation starter degrees, you can easily get a job a few years in, within the field, which is my aim. I've been receiving calls for months about software development roles, yet it's too early for this for me.

Hope this has, if anything, a little help.

If you do not have any qualifications in IT then I dont see how you can comment on the two options the OP mentioned, further more if you don't know what the compTIA involves then you cannot make a comparision and I am no way saying it is superior either.

flappy_warbucks wrote: »

Hi,

I have worked in IT for more years, then i have fingers to count them on. What i would say is this:

MCSE are viewed more as a standard. compTIA are more for hobbyists. MCSE's have greater grounding then the compTIA counterparts. (This is coming from someone with a compTIA, and an MCSE).

If you like all the hovering under desks, and getting dusty, then it'll suit you. If you're looking for a job where you sit at a desk all day, then maybe desk top support is not for you.

Well with this in mind you would know that employers would take someone on first line with a CompTIA? CompTIA have come a long way since their A+ and have a variety of different certs now and is more than ample to get in the door for some roles.

ianders wrote: »

MCSE now is completely different from MCSE from a couple of years ago.

Used to be Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer

Now means Microsoft Certified Solutions Expert

Not too up to speed on the current incarnation of it but the old MCSE was not for beginners. It required several years of direct experience of working in a multi-server environment.

You may want to start with an MCDST (desktop support technician), MCITP (IT Professional) or MCSA (used to be Systems Analyst, now Solutions Architect).

The way I do them is buy the books and do the exams only. Have a look at prometric.com which will let you search for local test centres. Most MS exams are around the £200 mark and MS quite often run free 2nd shot promotions or discounts for booking multiple exams.

A bit mre clarity here, the MCSE is extremely different to how it was, it used to be the old MCP and MCSE be all and end all but now you have a plethora of certifications and it is broken down far more.

szam_ wrote: »

Good afternoon,

I work in the industry, and have been doing it as a hobby since leaving school.

First and foremost, i do not have any qualifications in I.T. Before i changed from retail, it was just something i did in my spare time and with a charity to help them out. A qualification isn't mandatory, but it helps if you know what you're talking about.

Firstly, decide which route you want to go down. I'm a jack of all trades at present, i know hardware and networking, to software and SQL. This is why i'm valued as a member of staff. Most people i've met are filtered into one of the two. We have an excellent engineer who knows anything and everything about networking, but next to nothing on bespoke software, and vice versa.

If it were up to me, i'd be doing the MSCE, i've not looked into CompTIA so i couldn't tell you the difference. I do see MSCE requirements for jobs more often however. If you want to get into networking, the CCNA might be the way to go. As an aside, ITIL might also come in handy, not only for starting out, but for later down the line too, i see this one cropping up more and more often and need to get it done myself.

I am however, looking at going down a Software Development route myself, and as such i am starting a degree later this year with the Open Uni. I also need to get my SQL qualifications, too. If this interests you, you can usually find foundation starter degrees, you can easily get a job a few years in, within the field, which is my aim. I've been receiving calls for months about software development roles, yet it's too early for this for me.

Hope this has, if anything, a little help.

flappy_warbucks wrote: »

Hi,

I have worked in IT for more years, then i have fingers to count them on. What i would say is this:

MCSE are viewed more as a standard. compTIA are more for hobbyists. MCSE's have greater grounding then the compTIA counterparts. (This is coming from someone with a compTIA, and an MCSE).

If you like all the hovering under desks, and getting dusty, then it'll suit you. If you're looking for a job where you sit at a desk all day, then maybe desk top support is not for you.

ianders wrote: »

MCSE now is completely different from MCSE from a couple of years ago.

Used to be Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer

Now means Microsoft Certified Solutions Expert

Not too up to speed on the current incarnation of it but the old MCSE was not for beginners. It required several years of direct experience of working in a multi-server environment.

You may want to start with an MCDST (desktop support technician), MCITP (IT Professional) or MCSA (used to be Systems Analyst, now Solutions Architect).

The way I do them is buy the books and do the exams only. Have a look at prometric.com which will let you search for local test centres. Most MS exams are around the £200 mark and MS quite often run free 2nd shot promotions or discounts for booking multiple exams.

daman2k wrote: »

The MCSE is NOT an entry level qualification, in fact it is a high level Microsoft qualification. You have said that you have no experience so even if you did somehow manage to pass your MCSE having never really worked on a server or desktops (depending on which MCSE you chose) in a office enviroment, many recruitment staff / employers will look at you as what they call a "Paper MCSE".
A Paper MCSE is someone who has the qualification but no experience in what they are doing, they tend to avoid these.


For instance in a 2012 server MCSE you are expected to know about powershell 3.0, server config, dns, dhcp, direct access, federation services, encryption, hyper v, ipv4 & ipv6, installation, group policy, active directory, wsus, replication, file servers, print servers, terminal services, remote desktop, & much more.

Any employer worth their salt will test you on these things at a job interview.

Think this pretty much hits the nail on the head here and can tell it is someone that has done that track or doing it.

Oh as for the person that said it is £200 for a MS exam, lol. As for doing self study, I think the OP will struggle with certain matter and should wait some time before doing some until such time they have a footing,m there is still prerequisites and also there is a difference between studying and memorising content and doing brain dumps and knowing the product in the real world


To the OP, there are several ways to get into IT, the only issue you have here is the market is saturated with 1/2nd line people therefore employers have their pick at the crop and with entry level permy jobs they can easily get more for their money.

I think a couple of CompTIA certs are probably the way to go. You come from sales so will have that customer service sector which is needed within 1st line, a lot of employers will quite happily employ someone with no technical experience just purely based on their CS skills. Softphone skills are just as important because you need to listen and take pertinent information and also manage customers expectations with SLA's and the like.

1st line will tell you a good bit about what you like and dont like and from there you can decide which track you would like to go down within the vast field that is IT.