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They are changing dh's contract - advice urgently needed!

Dh works for a plant hire company as a delivery driver (although he originally started off as a plant hire driver). He's been with this company for around 7 years.

They are planning to change all the drivers' contracts. At the moment dh works a basic 30hr week on around £19kpa but he makes more working overtime, so he usually gets in early and finishes late and his overtime is around 10 hours a week.

The changes they are making is to put the drivers on a 4 day week. They will start at 6am instead of 7am and finish an hour earlier. The day off will be on a rota so that drivers from other depots will always cover that day off.

The drivers have been told they'll still be able to work overtime but it looks as if they are covering all the bases so they won't have to pay overtime at all. They are also cutting back their holiday entitlement.

They did a trial run of this in Glasgow and got positive feedback but that was because the drivers were working a 4 day week but being paid for their usual 5 days.

These are just 'proposals' for now but the company are not listening to the drivers' concerns and are giving them a 4 week notice period to agree.

We are just about getting by on dh's wages and what I bring in part-time. With his overtime he is earning around £22kpa but with these new proposals he would be on his basic pay which is a £3k cut in wages. That would cripple us. He already spends around £70 pw in petrol just to get to work and back.

Seems to me like they are doing everything they are legally obliged to do but they do have to have a consensus right? And if all the drivers refuse to sign the new contracts what then? Can any of them claim unfair dismissal if they refuse to agree to the new contracted hours and terms?

I realise this is a tricky one and the company are probably banking on the fact that the drivers won't know about contract law and won't risk taking them to court. A few have joined the Union but they won't touch the case until around 4 weeks have passed by which time it's too late. I have told dh to call ACAS but I really would like to hear from anyone who might know a little more about this?
"Funny how just when you think life can't possibly get any worse, it does." - Marvin (Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy)

DON'T PANIC
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Comments

  • notanewuser
    notanewuser Posts: 8,499 Forumite
    Dh works for a plant hire company as a delivery driver (although he originally started off as a plant hire driver). He's been with this company for around 7 years.

    They are planning to change all the drivers' contracts. At the moment dh works a basic 30hr week on around £19kpa but he makes more working overtime, so he usually gets in early and finishes late and his overtime is around 10 hours a week.

    The changes they are making is to put the drivers on a 4 day week. They will start at 6am instead of 7am and finish an hour earlier. The day off will be on a rota so that drivers from other depots will always cover that day off.

    The drivers have been told they'll still be able to work overtime but it looks as if they are covering all the bases so they won't have to pay overtime at all. They are also cutting back their holiday entitlement.

    They did a trial run of this in Glasgow and got positive feedback but that was because the drivers were working a 4 day week but being paid for their usual 5 days.

    These are just 'proposals' for now but the company are not listening to the drivers' concerns and are giving them a 4 week notice period to agree.

    We are just about getting by on dh's wages and what I bring in part-time. With his overtime he is earning around £22kpa but with these new proposals he would be on his basic pay which is a £3k cut in wages. That would cripple us. He already spends around £70 pw in petrol just to get to work and back.

    Seems to me like they are doing everything they are legally obliged to do but they do have to have a consensus right? And if all the drivers refuse to sign the new contracts what then? Can any of them claim unfair dismissal if they refuse to agree to the new contracted hours and terms?

    I realise this is a tricky one and the company are probably banking on the fact that the drivers won't know about contract law and won't risk taking them to court. A few have joined the Union but they won't touch the case until around 4 weeks have passed by which time it's too late. I have told dh to call ACAS but I really would like to hear from anyone who might know a little more about this?

    No, they don't have to have a consensus. Anybody who starts working on the new pattern when implemented can be deemed to have accepted it whether they've signed or not. Anybody who refuses to turn up when rota'd can be sacked.

    Time to look for work closer to home and to revise that SOA in the meantime.
    Trying to be a man is a waste of a woman
  • He has looked for work. There is nothing.

    So they don't need the agreement of the workers then? They can just change the contract with notice and the workers either accept the new terms or are sacked?

    And the public sector think they have it bad.....
    "Funny how just when you think life can't possibly get any worse, it does." - Marvin (Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy)

    DON'T PANIC
  • notanewuser
    notanewuser Posts: 8,499 Forumite
    He has looked for work. There is nothing.

    So they don't need the agreement of the workers then? They can just change the contract with notice and the workers either accept the new terms or are sacked?

    And the public sector think they have it bad.....

    Would you prefer they made massive redundancies?
    Trying to be a man is a waste of a woman
  • notanewuser
    notanewuser Posts: 8,499 Forumite
    He has looked for work. There is nothing.

    So they don't need the agreement of the workers then? They can just change the contract with notice and the workers either accept the new terms or are sacked?

    And the public sector think they have it bad.....

    No, they don't need the agreement of workers/union etc.
    Trying to be a man is a waste of a woman
  • A little tact here would be nice you know?

    They have already made redundancies and closed down depots all over the country in the last 5 years.

    If they made dh redundant at least he'd have redundancy pay. But changing his contract will mean that he gets up at 4.30am to leave here for 5am so to be at work for 6am driving long hours (they are entitled to only a 3/4 hour break in 9 hours).


    And from what I know of contract law, I do know there are legal requirements for a change in contract so I was asking to see if those legal requirements had been met, what would happen if the drivers all challenged the change and if the changes were enough to give them a case for unfair dismissal if they refused to sign the new contracts.
    "Funny how just when you think life can't possibly get any worse, it does." - Marvin (Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy)

    DON'T PANIC
  • Dunroamin
    Dunroamin Posts: 16,908 Forumite
    edited 18 March 2013 at 12:37PM
    Have you actually worked out the difference in net income taking account of tax/NICs, less petrol costs to work and tax credits? The loss may be less than you think.

    As your husband will be home for an extra day a week, does this make it more feasible for you to up your hours or for him to look for part time work for the day?
  • ValHaller
    ValHaller Posts: 5,212 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Dunroamin wrote: »
    ....
    As your husband will be home for an extra day a week, does this make it more feasible for .... him to look for part time work for the day?
    Probably not, because he is unlikely to get a fixed day. But this would actually be a reasonable ask.
    You might as well ask the Wizard of Oz to give you a big number as pay a Credit Referencing Agency for a so-called 'credit-score'
  • Yes we've worked out the difference and we'd be left very short.

    I am self-employed so I can't up my hours, I already work as much as I possibly can with 2 kids and no after-school clubs. My wages vary depending on how much work I can get in. One month it might be just £350 and another month I might get just over £500.

    The problem is that he'll be fit for nothing by the time he gets home, having been up since 4.30am and not getting overtime pay for working those unsociable hours. Plus he drives an hour before he gets to work which isn't taken into account for the legal break time.

    They are cutting back holiday entitlement too.

    This is not because they are a struggling company. They are nationwide and are actually pretty busy since other depots have had to take on the extra work from the closed depots so the overtime was always available and made it worthwhile.

    Now they'll just be working harder, for less pay and less holidays.

    Yet I suppose the attitude is that we should be grateful he still has a job. So let companies dump on you from a great height but just sit and take it because they could always made you redundant.

    Bit of a naff attitude if you ask me. Why should workers put up with shoddy treatment?

    I'm feeling quite sensitive about all of this. We are already struggling and I have a MSE diary to help me budget and cut back. This is another blow and I would really appreciate it if posters could remember that.

    I'm getting the impression that there is nothing he or the other drivers can do, that it's all above board and they'll just have to accept it.
    "Funny how just when you think life can't possibly get any worse, it does." - Marvin (Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy)

    DON'T PANIC
  • ValHaller wrote: »
    Probably not, because he is unlikely to get a fixed day. But this would actually be a reasonable ask.

    ValHaller is right, it's on a rota so it's not a fixed day. I don't think they would agree to fixed days as they want to send drivers out to cover that extra day as and when needed.
    "Funny how just when you think life can't possibly get any worse, it does." - Marvin (Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy)

    DON'T PANIC
  • ValHaller
    ValHaller Posts: 5,212 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Yet I suppose the attitude is that we should be grateful he still has a job. So let companies dump on you from a great height but just sit and take it because they could always made you redundant.

    Bit of a naff attitude if you ask me. Why should workers put up with shoddy treatment?
    Is he a member of a Union? Unions get such bad press - sometimes deserved but mostly not, given the quiet successes in many situations over the years. This sort of renegotiation of contract is bread and butter to a union and in a situation like this it usually ends up with some give and take to everyone's advantage rather than everything going the employer's way
    You might as well ask the Wizard of Oz to give you a big number as pay a Credit Referencing Agency for a so-called 'credit-score'
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