new build advice

Myown

If every one walked away from what they didnt like, then every one would do what they wanted, it creates bullies!

There is a right way of doing things, it isnt joining in and doing the same as the applicant, it isnt walking away and allowing him to do what he wants.
Its like saing some one has taken your belongings, you find out who it is for certain, but you dont like what they have done so you walk away and let them get away with it? I dont think you would!

My neighbours are united into sorting this out dignified, so that is what we are doing!

The owner is technically me, so the prevous owner/landlord is helping us an way he can within the law.

planning_officer

Sorry to be blunt here, but I'm doing it to be helpful - the issues of land ownership, former coal board land, covenants, who owns what etc are all completely irrelevant to the planning application.

In terms of the planning issues, all that matters is the distance between the houses. It doesn't necessarily matter who owns what or what use the intervening land is in. They're all private legal issues between the parties involved and nothing to do with the Council or the planning application.

If you think the house will affect your amenity (i.e. living conditions) then you need to focus on this to object to the planning application. As the application has been deferred to a subsequent Planning Committee meeting it sounds like it is probably heading for an approval, but it may be that's not the case. Concentrate on how the house will look from your property and garden - it's visual impact (in terms of it's size and bulk), any overshadowing, overlooking etc.

Myown

I understand what your saying.
The planning officer in charge does not care about our loss of light or over shadowing, she does not even care how close to our property this house will be.

1/ The planning officer kept repeating that the guide lines state 21 meters back to back is guide lines only. She insisted that 18 meters was fine, but, she could not say where she got her figure from.

Where does it state the true figures of what is recommended ?
We can not find it!

2/ I understand planning are only interested in the planning, but the planning officer is 'blind folded' to some of the issues raised ie.. too close to our property, especially the 4th neighbour as the applicant has fenced of the boundaries going from my house to his in a straight line. We have a copy of the plans, the actual border runs from my right, to the 4th neighbour in an angle, moving out closer to the applicant!
This means on the applicants plans, he is using the 'wrong plans' but with the right measurements.
This means on the original plans, the neighbour has a longer garden than what he actually has!
That said, it means that the 'new build' will not be 18 meters away from my 2 neighbours, or my self!

The planning officer visited the site with other councillors, at no time did they walk to the end of the garden (waste land) or visited our properties to actually see how close this house would be.

This house will cause extreme loss of light and cause over shadowing, the planning officer told me its nothing to do with planning, so we are prepared to take it to court.

Questions...

If we state at the next meeting that there is a boundary dispute, will this have to be rectified before they can consider planning ?

If this is given the go ahead, he is building on our land with out permission, will this be a court issue ?

If we get our boundaries re marked, it would mean that he would not be able to build on the plot he wants to as this will reduce his land and there will not be enough to build on. He could however; reposition the house and have it running lengthways, still close but the goal posts would move as it would be backs to his side. This would create an eye sore! Also block our light and our sun, we would not be able to enjoy our gardens, what ever position he wanted the house.

We have his title deeds which state strict covenance, no buildings/ sheds to take the light of neighbours. No foundations to be laid and no buildings.
We are merely looking at this in the hope if the coal board own the waste land we will contact them, if he does rightfully own the land we will still contact them. All waste land is silt and is to remain that way.

While I know some things are nothing to do with planning, we have to take action for any wrong doing, so this is why we are looking at other avenues to stop this being built. If we lose at least we will know we tried our best.

We also have photos which show from 2009 until November 2012, you can clearly see 5 mature trees, he has had them cut down and roots removed. We will go to the papers as he is a councillor who clearly seems that he has got the go ahead, I wonder why?

Fire_Fox

Back to basics: research valid planning objections, you are trying consider what you think is reasonable, that is not how it works. AFAIK you do not have a right to light. The planning officer cares about valid planning objections and local policy, that is their job they can't make it up as they go along. If you do not submit strong enough objections and the proposed development meets planning policy/ guidelines then they must grant permission.

You do yourself no favours by being sarcastic instead of respectful of council professionals. Also be very careful about throwing accusations around about 'stealing' land, that is slander or libel (depending if verbal or written). You don't know what happened in the past or how the hedges and fences came to be where they are, remember newspapers pick up on stuff like that so the councillor may come down on you hard.

You would do best to get a solicitor onto that aspect of the issue, once you have the fences back in better positions, a few strongly worded legal letters reminding him that the land belongs to each house may be enough. You only need to go to court if he tries to register or build on the land. The coal board or original owner would need to enforce the covenants, the residents cannot.

Planning permission can be grated on land that you do not own, by all means have the registered owners of each property (not tenants, probably not you) re-fence in and start using their gardens. If the neighbour has been using land for some years unchallenged they may be able to apply to register it. Check that the registered owners of all the gardens have given their correct postal address to land registry so they can be kept informed
http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/public/boundaries
http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/professional/guides/practice-guide-5

You should be able to go to the other councillor, they represent you and their party policies they are not there simply to support other councillors. They should only be representing or supporting residents in valid planning objections, f you have none then they can support the development. If not try your MP but they will not support you either if you go around slandering/ libelling councillors and insulting or being sarcastic about planning officers.

Telephone the council's planning department to ask what these guidelines are if you can't find them on their website. Here the guidance appears to be on the council website, so it may well vary from area to area
http://www.wrexham.gov.uk/english/planning_portal/lpg_notes/lpg21.htm
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/
http://www.bvps.org.uk/valid_objections.html

Land_Registry

In support of Fire Fox's last post it might help to reaffirm the following points
1. It is important to start by looking at the actual title plans for each registered property and not any deed plans - if the legal owners believe that they have 'lost' land which is registered to them then they should seek legal advice. If the land has been lost over a number of years any legal right to reclaim it may no longer exist. The Practice Guide 5 referred to assists with the timeframes involved.

2. Restrictive covenants - reading your earlier posts suggests that you understand that any restrictive covenants imposed on the land will be for the benefit of others but not just anyone i.e. if the Coal Board sold the land and imposed said covenants then the land which they retained at that time would enjoy the benefit of said covenants. If for example that benefiting land has subsequently been split up and sold then the benefit remains with each piece of that sold land - from what you have mentioned that seems to exclude the properties which appear to have 'lost' land.

Fire Fox's point regarding ensuring that addresses are up to date is an important one. IF an application to register the 'lost' land is submitted then it is very likely that the owners of any affected land would be notified of such an application and given a period of time within which to object. Any claim is likely to be based on the claim that the land has been used, fenced and so on for a period of time.
If you or your neighbours have checked their registered titles they can double-check the address details recorded for them (see the B Proprietorship register). If they need to be changed or updated then see our online information on what is required

Myown

quote: You do yourself no favours by being sarcastic instead of respectful of council professionals.

Firstly, this is a forum and it is freedom of speech! If I sound sarcastic then that is your interpritation. I am not stupid enough to be going around as you say 'slandering' which ever way you want to look at it he has not merely 'asked to have our land, he has taken it' You do not live here, you do not see what goes on, enough is enough and this time we are standing up for our selves and not turning a blind eye.

As for the said councillor coming down hard on me, it wont be as hard as it will be for him, knowing what we know!

I have not come on this forum to argue about councilors, but im not letting you put me down with out a reply, so please keep those comments to your self, im asking for advice on my rights!

The other 'ward councilor' has sent an email supporting his plans, so, yes he is on his side. How do we go to him knowing he is supporting his 'friend' and is not going to give us the time of day.

The planning officer is supporting him, as for asking her questions we have done, he disregards the fact that we will lose light, especially my neighbour, he has very reduced light already, due to trees in the applicants garden, building the house will make it darker. We will not be able to enjoy our gardens as we will be over looked and put in the shade.

Can some one tell my what the actual rules of distance are? Yes I can look at the portal, yes most apply to us, but the planning officer is telling us 'They are merely guide lines' So we asked where she got her figures from to considerably reduce the limits on distance, and rule out loss of light, over shadowing. She just repeated ' The planning portal are for guide lines only.
Seems to us the guide lines are not worth the paper the are written on.


We all have the title deeds it clearly states on all our deeds and certificate 'no buildings, no add ons, no foundations' I know it is for each property and land when first purchased. We are now awaiting confirmation of who owns the land, then we can apply for the title deeds.

All our title deeds and plans show the original boundries.

He has not applied for our land to go onto his title deeds.

Fire_Fox

Myown wrote: »

quote: You do yourself no favours by being sarcastic instead of respectful of council professionals.

Firstly, this is a forum and it is freedom of speech! If I sound sarcastic then that is your interpritation. I am not stupid enough to be going around as you say 'slandering' which ever way you want to look at it he has not merely 'asked to have our land, he has taken it' You do not live here, you do not see what goes on, enough is enough and this time we are standing up for our selves and not turning a blind eye.

As for the said councillor coming down hard on me, it wont be as hard as it will be for him, knowing what we know!

I have not come on this forum to argue about councilors, but im not letting you put me down with out a reply, so please keep those comments to your self, im asking for advice on my rights!

The other 'ward councilor' has sent an email supporting his plans, so, yes he is on his side. How do we go to him knowing he is supporting his 'friend' and is not going to give us the time of day.

The planning officer is supporting him, as for asking her questions we have done, he disregards the fact that we will lose light, especially my neighbour, he has very reduced light already, due to trees in the applicants garden, building the house will make it darker. We will not be able to enjoy our gardens as we will be over looked and put in the shade.

Can some one tell my what the actual rules of distance are? Yes I can look at the portal, yes most apply to us, but the planning officer is telling us 'They are merely guide lines' So we asked where she got her figures from to considerably reduce the limits on distance, and rule out loss of light, over shadowing. She just repeated ' The planning portal are for guide lines only.
Seems to us the guide lines are not worth the paper the are written on.

All our title deeds and plans show the original boundries.

He has not applied for our land to go onto his title deeds.

No, we don't actually have free speech here on MSE, read the rules and policies. Martin Lewis posting on a DT sticky "There are many free speech forums which will allow people to voice their views. This isn't one of them." Even if we did have free speech I'd love to know how it applies to you but not to me.

I spent quite a bit of time typing out that post and finding links, a thanks would be great. Through voluntary work with a community group I have a little experience of planning objections and dealing with councillors. "Surprise, surprise" is sarcastic and "does not care" is dismissive/ rude, I have a better than average grasp of the English language thank you.

Having possession of something is NOT the same as stealing it, you do not know exactly how and what the land came to be fenced off, exactly what boundary markers were there before and exactly what was said by the previous neighbours.

Plenty of people are silly enough to be just as hotheaded, rude and slanderous/ libellous in letters and meetings as they are when here on the forum. Members of the public can be thrown out of planning meetings for rudeness and allegations, which would be a disaster for your case. Therefore my warnings were for YOUR benefit, but instead of thanking me you leap to conclusions and are rude to me too.

Myown

Then you should have kept your personal remarks towards me to your self, especially the way you worded it, about being disrespectful! The world is not full of 'good' people, social workers, councillors, mp's, teachers, the police have been found to have abused the system, so please dont ask me to respect some one, when you dont know what actually goes on here! I have not 'named' any one!

Your advice otherwise, I was very greatful for, so you are wrong about that.

"land came to be fenced off, exactly what boundary markers were there before and exactly what was said by the previous neighbours."

Previous neighbours left because it was well known how and why, fed up of it they went because they did not want any problems, we are in touch with the previous owners who lived here for 25 yrs. The other neighbours that left too! Others still live here!

The existing boundary markings are still there!

We want to do this the right way, so that is why we are getting legal advice, but getting as much information as possible, instead of being 'idiots'.

patman99

Myown, if you want to teach both your Ward Councillors a lesson, then if you and one other (can be as many people as you want) write to the Elections Officer stating that the Councillors have acted against the public interest, then the E/O will have to invoke an Act dating back to 1376 & call a by election. At this point, you and your neighbours can put themselves forward for election.

Some people only get elected to enable them to further their own aims instead of helping those who voted them in.

Myown

Thank you

" Some people only get elected to enable them to further their own aims instead of helping those who voted them in."

My point exactly!

'Councillors have acted against the public interest, then the E/O will have to invoke an Act dating back to 1376 & call a by election'

That is interesting to know, but would it be classed as them doing that?

I did speak to the planning officer about the fact that the ward councillor had written a letter supporting the ward councillor, he said it wouldn't make a difference who it was.
It is very difficult for us to get some one in authority to help, it should be our ward councillor. Getting a councillor to support us from another ward is not going to help.
At the planning meeting a councillor from another ward said she would support it, another councillor said

" I don't know why your in support, your from a different ward, so you wont know what the residence are up against, you dont know the area'

The problem we have is that the planning officer is looking at the applicant as an ordinary resident, so, that means the applicant has got the ward councillor on his side. The residence have not had time to see the ward councillor as they have been working, we all took a day off for the planning meeting.
We feel that 'the ward councillor being the applicant' knows what he is doing, he did not expect any one to object! So, yes he is looking after him self, but will any one look at it that way? Why did he not get a resident to support him, after all, 1 ward councillor to thousands of residence?

No planning officer came to any resident home to ask our opinion, to see our homes and view what we could see from our back gardens. Yet he went to the applicant, took other councillors, including the other ward councillor, to the land he wants to build on, upon that visit the planning officer told me on the phone the were all in agreement the plans were going to be supported by them. Where was our chance?

I have found the amended 'guide lines' stating it has to be built in the same brick, windows the same, roof tiles too, well, new build will have different colour window frames, different brick, different roof tiles, nothing like the original house or ours, it will stand out all right!

We appose the new build as it is smack bang in front of our home blocking light, too close to our homes over looking, we all live in the back of our houses, so tell me, what is to stop them building, then they redo the lay out, putting their lounge in the back? There is no law!

There is no point making rules then saying they are guide lines, then moving the goal posts!