What is the actual problem?

Guys_Dad

PompeiiMaster wrote: »

I'd actually love a debate about it and to see things be changed. If the industry is full of cow boys who are being ruthless it needs to stop - I'm all for that.

My ran't was purely because I'm sick of people "getting off" or being told to ignore and things are unenforceable - its those people that are clogging up spaces for me to use and I dont mind sticking to the rules. If it costs me £2 to pay for 2 hours parking, I'll pay the £2 and be back within my 2 hours. If I need more, I'll pay for more. I dont expect a free ride in life.

Please dont get me started on mother and child bays... Now thats something that PPC's and councils should be albe to enforce and the "charges" should be £££.

OK, taking you at your word about a serious debate.

Taking your scenario of paying £2 for 2 hours. Just suppose you were inadvertently delayed - child or aged parent with you sick, your car keys pickpocketed, your car won't start and you had to call the AA, any such scenarios, would you happily pay a £60/£100 penalty?

How does £2 for 2 hours relate to £60 for a 30 minute overstay?

andy13

Oh where does one start?

PPCs aren't about parking management, they exist to extort money from motorists. Rumours of PPC owners paying themselves in excess of 400k per year don't exactly help.
Lying and threatening motorists who don't know it's a scam.

I overstayed 2o minutes in a £1 an hour carpark through no fault of my own and now I'm expected to pay £70!!!!!!
If there was a facility to pay the overstay, that would be moral. Or if there was a demand for £1 plus a small admin fee, I would pay it.

Stroma

We don't actually condone car park abuse whether in private or council car parks. We encourage people to pay their dues for parking and I know I pay my way. But most tickets come in free car parks attached to supermarkets and retail parks.

Taking an example today of a morrisons I was in who cp plus are supposed to offer management. The nearest sign I saw was about 75 meters away from where I parked, there was no signs on entry that I saw, so how can you abide by conditions if you can't see anything.

And that is not an isolated case, this happens up and down the country, parking companies deliberately trying to trip people up, another one is where there is a 3 hour limit with a cinema, bowling alley, restaurants and retail shops, and excel are there with their sparsely spread out signs.

And parking eye are the ones with cameras on the entry/exit of car parks, and they call this management, they have only signs on entry and exit, and you drive past them at 20mph and don't see them. With this company they refuse appeals by disabled people automatically even when proof is provided. They in fact break the Equality Act by not allowing a reasonable adjustment of time for them.

Then it's our old favourite UKCPS who deliberately target disabled drivers who make a little mistake of not showing a badge, even though its not valid on private land, or ticketing cars displaying a badge which is against their own trade body code of practice.

I could go on, but you get the picture I'm sure.

UsernameAlreadyExists

Playing devil's advocate, but rules are rules are rules!
To counter - what's the problem with not declaring a car SORN if you're not using it and it's sat there on your driving not hurting anyone? You still get slapped with a £80 fine, or whatever it is.

PompeiiMaster

Guys_Dad wrote: »

1. Charges of £100 for overstaying a few minutes in an otherwise free car park are extortionate. If they were more reasonable, then people might be happy to pay.

I agree, £100 is extortionate for being a few minutes late. I'm no expert in this field and someone may be able to fill in here but a quick Google throws up "Grace periods" mentioned in the BPA Code of Practise. It reads a bit open ended but maybe these should be defined as a fixed duration - assuming they already are not?

Maybe there should be a sliding scale of the charge depending on how late you are? Assuming the PPC operates the car park in a pay and display manner, if its a no parking zone like staff only - how could it be a sliding scale?

Guys_Dad wrote: »

2. When you see threads on here where PPC attendants see that someone is disabled and parking in a disabled bay with a Road Tax disc saying "Disabled tax £0.00" and still ticket them for not showing a blue badge, even though the scheme is not applicable to private land, then you might understand why people get irate.

Again, I agree but blue badge abuse is rife. I only need to go into my local town centre to see that and its a shame, people spoil it for others. Maybe the scheme should be improved as its easily open for abuse as it stands.

Guys_Dad wrote: »

There are loads of other examples - people parking in their own paid for parking spaces being ticketed for one current thread.

Surely thats an appeal to the PPC while copying in the land owner - it can't take much complaints to the land owner to demonstrate how imcompetent the PPC is operating? Why do people need to get a defence on a forum for it?

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Don't forget many of these cowboys were the almost illegal clampers who caused so much misery, now bringing their talents to a different audience.

It needs tighter regulation, I'm all for that and unfortunately it's their business model. People say they are scammers etc which I guess some maybe, they need to be weeded out but when I cant find a space to park my car or stuck in ever worsening it'll be somewhat related to people trying to stop PPC's enforcing then we'll all be whining about having no where to park and council issued PCN's.

I wish more could be done to sort out the industry - I believe people need to enforce their land purely so people dont take the mick, however giving everyone a "magic get out clause" isnt helping the greater good.

ManxRed

OK, in four years or so of posting on these forums, I've not yet come across a PPC that actually 'manages' car parks. They are ALL, without exception, there to make a profit. Tickets meanz profitz.

More tickets, more tickets, more tickets.

They give less of a damn about abuse of spaces than you do, trust me.

If you would care to look through lots of threads on here you will find that the regulars on here do not approve of abuse of car parking spaces (unless you take offence at being told that and complain to the mods to get the posts that state this removed - see legz's thread). We do not approve of abuse of genuine parking fees charged by landowners too.

We have debated misuse of parking spaces quite a lot and come up with some suggestions. One thing is sure, PPCs 'managing' car parks won't solve this. The abuse of genuine motorists who do not abuse these car parks FAAAAARRRRR outweighs any good that these companies provide (if at all).

Under council schemes, the penalty charges issued under legislation, are supposed to provide for reinvestment in road schemes (yes, I know that's not always the case, but it's supposed to be). All well and good. People mis-park, they get charged, the money gets reinvested.

Private 'penalty' charges issued under no legislation at all, and under Civil Law in this country, legally unenforceable, go straight into the profits and pockets of the directors of these companies. The more tickets they issue, the more money they make, its as simple as that. The bigger the houses and cars they can buy.

This model opens itself up to abuse, and guess what? That's precisely what happens. People get ticketed for parking slightly over a white line, or for two visits in one day to a car park. Or for not displaying a ticket when they actually were, or for parking in a disabled bay when they are actually disabled. The PPC doesn't much care - if it can get people to be intimidated into paying a healthy proportion of these tickets then bingo, a bigger house in the country or a nice yacht.

And don't start me on the intimidation. The letters these companies send misrepresent people's true legal position on these tickets. They are designed to scare and intinimdate with half truths and blatant lies. The objective is the same. To get more tickets paid.

These companies are scum I'm afraid.

I sympathise with the abuse of private parking spaces, but the abuse by PPCs of innocent motorists is on a scale you wouldn't believe.

nigelbb

UsernameAlreadyExists wrote: »

Playing devil's advocate, but rules are rules are rules!
To counter - what's the problem with not declaring a car SORN if you're not using it and it's sat there on your driving not hurting anyone? You still get slapped with a £80 fine, or whatever it is.

The state can levy a fine. Private companies cannot.

PompeiiMaster

So by the sounds of peoples comments people hate PPC's because they make a profit... Anyone likely to start a not-for-profit PPC that reinvests proceeds from charges back into the local community and would that get better compliance? Doesnt sound like a bad idea to me, but would you still say £70 was extortionate in that scenario?

halibut2209

ManxRed wrote: »

OK, in four years or so of posting on these forums, I've not yet come across a PPC that actually 'manages' car parks. They are ALL, without exception, there to make a profit. Tickets meanz profitz.

More tickets, more tickets, more tickets.

They give less of a damn about abuse of spaces than you do, trust me.

If you would care to look through lots of threads on here you will find that the regulars on here do not approve of abuse of car parking spaces (unless you take offence at being told that and complain to the mods to get the posts that state this removed - see legz's thread). We do not approve of abuse of genuine parking fees charged by landowners too.

We have debated misuse of parking spaces quite a lot and come up with some suggestions. One thing is sure, PPCs 'managing' car parks won't solve this. The abuse of genuine motorists who do not abuse these car parks FAAAAARRRRR outweighs any good that these companies provide (if at all).

Under council schemes, the penalty charges issued under legislation, are supposed to provide for reinvestment in road schemes (yes, I know that's not always the case, but it's supposed to be). All well and good. People mis-park, they get charged, the money gets reinvested.

Private 'penalty' charges issued under no legislation at all, and under Civil Law in this country, legally unenforceable, go straight into the profits and pockets of the directors of these companies. The more tickets they issue, the more money they make, its as simple as that. The bigger the houses and cars they can buy.

This model opens itself up to abuse, and guess what? That's precisely what happens. People get ticketed for parking slightly over a white line, or for two visits in one day to a car park. Or for not displaying a ticket when they actually were, or for parking in a disabled bay when they are actually disabled. The PPC doesn't much care - if it can get people to be intimidated into paying a healthy proportion of these tickets then bingo, a bigger house in the country or a nice yacht.

And don't start me on the intimidation. The letters these companies send misrepresent people's true legal position on these tickets. They are designed to scare and intinimdate with half truths and blatant lies. The objective is the same. To get more tickets paid.

These companies are scum I'm afraid.

I sympathise with the abuse of private parking spaces, but the abuse by PPCs of innocent motorists is on a scale you wouldn't believe.

This is the best post ever made on this forum.

halibut2209

And the OP is clearly not reading the posts made here. Report and ignore folks.