We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.

This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.

PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: Hello Forumites! In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non-MoneySaving matters are not permitted per the Forum rules. While we understand that mentioning house prices may sometimes be relevant to a user's specific MoneySaving situation, we ask that you please avoid veering into broad, general debates about the market, the economy and politics, as these can unfortunately lead to abusive or hateful behaviour. Threads that are found to have derailed into wider discussions may be removed. Users who repeatedly disregard this may have their Forum account banned. Please also avoid posting personally identifiable information, including links to your own online property listing which may reveal your address. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

Leasehold query

I live in a block of four flats, I bought the flat 2 years ago, we each pay the freeholder £10 per year ground rent & we pay for our own buildings insurance. At some point in the past, (long before I moved in) they decided to split the responsibility for maintenance in half so that the ground floor & first floor flats were responsible for their side & vice versa on the other side, however, the lease clearly states that the building must be maintained & each “pay a proper proportion of costs for maintenance"

My elderly neighbour has a problem with water ingress and the roof needs some work, the current estimate is in excess of £2000, I am perfectly happy to pay my share of the costs but I know we will have problems getting the other 2 leaseholders to pay, I have to assume they think the terms of the lease don't apply to them. the building is 70 years old & maintenance will be ongoing.

I know my neighbour finds this situation very worrying & I want to help her, we also need to set a precedent & make the other leaseholders aware of the fact that they are equally responsible for the entire building not just their half, it doesn't help that they are in their late 70's & are contrary people.

My thoughts are to give them copies of the estimates along with a request for cleared funds before work can commence, they are entitled to get their own estimates if they wish. Does the freeholder have any input into this situation? I would be grateful for any advice.

Comments

  • Fire_Fox
    Fire_Fox Posts: 26,026 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Are you in England or Wales, or in Scotland? What does the long lease say about who organises the repairs, maintenance and buildings insurance? What did your conveyancing solicitor have to say about the current as hoc arrangements? Did you appoint someone specialising in leasehold?

    In England and Wales it is usual for the freeholder to be organising all this and splitting the costs according to the lease. If so a formal consultation is supposed to be carried out if the costs are more than £250 per flat, you can't just randomly ask your neighbour for cleared funds! In fact would strongly recommend you don't given their ages - remember it could look like elder abuse/ manipulation of a vulnerable person. If there is nothing in the long lease about the freeholder's input you would be best seeking legal advice (specialist in leasehold disputes, not any old solicitor).

    Also in that eventuality consider setting up a 'business' type/ tenants' bank account requiring dual signatures for any funds towards repairs and maintenance. Someone may also need to do prepare an annual statement of accounts which is another reason not to have other people's money passing through your bank. Sorry to seem cold but you should consider what happens if one of your neighbours passes away, property can sometimes be in probate for months or years, and it won't be easy to get money towards repairs and maintenance during that period.

    Again assuming you are in England or Wales read as much of this as you can alongside your long lease http://www.lease-advice.org/publications/
    Declutterbug-in-progress.⭐️⭐️⭐️ ⭐️⭐️
  • propertyman
    propertyman Posts: 2,922 Forumite
    If the freeholder is responsible under the lease to carry out those repairs, and flat owners to repay as service charge, then it is the FH's responsibility to arrange.

    Read your lease and see what it says, then contact the FH.
    Stop! Think. Read the small print. Trust nothing and assume that it is your responsibility. That way it rarely goes wrong.
    Actively hunting down the person who invented the imaginary tenure, "share freehold";
    if you can show me one I will produce my daughter's unicorn
  • rhetse1
    rhetse1 Posts: 12 Forumite
    Thank you for taking the time to respond. Property is in England. Looking through my solicitors letters when buying the flat this is an edited version of a letter referring to the lease – While this is a leasehold it is slightly different, there are no service charges, insurance payments & no managing agents as such, Mr Anybody is the freeholder, ground rents are payable to him.

    The previous owner took care of his external decoration as do the ground floor flat, they shared the cost of replacing the guttering, there have been no expenses relating to the driveway & path, Such arrangements have been in place for more than 20 years. The landlord is only involved with regard to payment of ground rent & nothing else.

    The original lease – Lesee/s are responsible for buildings insurance against fire, storm tempest etc any damages must be repaired to the satisfaction of the Lessor or his agent.

    Clause 3 - The Lessee Hereby Further Covenants with the Lessor and with the owners & Lessees of the other flats
    (i) To maintain the building, keeping it in good repair etc
    (ii) To pay a proper proportion of the costs of maintaining, repairing, renewing etc

    There is a paragraph relating to what constitutes “proper proportion” Clause 3 (ii) if the lesees fail to agree proper proportion then the Lessor has a say, if this fails then surveyors decision shall be final & binding on all parties.

    Essentially, can the terms of the lease be changed to this Ad Hoc arrangement, is it legally binding?

    I feel sad for my neighbour since it seems to me we are all legally responsible for the repair to the roof, looking at Clause 3 (ii) the freeholder should be involved if there is a dispute about payment. I have offered to share the cost of a visit to the relevant solicitor if neccessary, I think the way forward is 2 further estimates, ( the FH has already sent his workman to give an estimate) and give the relevant paperwork to the people concerned, consulting the FH if there are disputes.
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 352.9K Banking & Borrowing
  • 253.9K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 454.7K Spending & Discounts
  • 246K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 602K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 177.8K Life & Family
  • 259.9K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.7K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.