Help needed please for my dad

buster1967

And what if Granny makes a full recovery but then realises a lot of money has gone from her account because her helpful 'family' had helped themselves

what are you insinuating that my dad would rob his own mother like.all he wants to do is change her savings account which needs a signature which she cannot supply to a current account so they can sort her direct debits out.

lets hope she isnt in the bank you work for then.

tonyfu thank you very much for your information i will tell my dad that it would be a good idea for him to get in touch with Age Concern. she is 94 years old but she still is very active mentally so she knows exactly what she is doing, its just that with her having the stroke it has affected her writing hand.

tanith

Buster1967 I don't think ejones999 was insinuating that your family would do such a thing... just pointing out that if it was made easy to change bank account details then unscrupulous families (not yours) could take all someones money without them knowing. Which is why there are certain safeguards in place for such an event.......

jonesMUFCforever

Cheers tanith.

buster 1967 I did not say that you would fleece your own family but believe me I have come across plenty that would.
Can you not see both sides of the argument?

buster1967

ejones999 except my apology when i read that particular thing i took it the wrong way.

It is all sorted now my aunt saw the head doctor where my Grandmother is and he did what was needed to be done and it will take about 2 weeks to sort things out.

as ive stated it needs to be done as my Grandmother pays £11 pw heating in her new bungalow even though she isnt actually in it yet, but the bills still need to be paid.

surely there must be some sort of thing that can be done in this situation where if a person cannot sign their name for whatever reasons that their family or someone they nominate can do it for them.

i do understand banks have a duty to prevent fraud and i told my dad this would be the reason why they couldnt get my Grandmother's situation sorted.

once again ejones999 please except my apologies for the misunderstanding.

jonesMUFCforever

Yes she can sign a third party mandate BUT she must be capable of understanding what she is signing.
Just because she managed to sign a form does not always mean she understood what she was signing. Perhaps this was why the bank needed some sort of confirmation that she did indeed understand.

If she could not understand what she was signing then IMO you would have been stuffed without a Court of Protection order.

I hope she recovers swiftly but it may be in the family's best interest to sign a mandate like this for future use if anything like this happens again.

(By the way sorry if this is a bit morbid, but the authority and a Power of Attorney ceases to be effective upon death - a lot of family members believe that they can still operate an account afterwards).

buster1967

as ive said before she has all her faculties especially at 94 years of age and if the worse happens, i doubt my dad and aunty would be bothered about anything other than losing their mother.

as ive stated it was only to pay for her bills that they needed the change from her savings account to a current account.

Willman_Rodders

Hi buster1967,

I am pleased to hear that your grandmother is recovering, and that she still has her wits about her to know what she is doing.

But you have received your warning signs ...
1. you have seen the chaos caused by not being able to get people to talk to you/your father about your grandmother; and
2. your grandmother has had a stoke.

I am not a doctor but I understand there is a [high] probability that having had one stroke, she may have more. Each one tends to do more damage than the last. Take the warnings, and try to get your grandmother to give your father power to act on her behalf - with an Enduring Power of Attorney.(EPA), now while you have the opportunity.

At this stage the document, once complete, can be kept safe, and remain unused. If her circumstances deteriorate then your father can use the document to act in all your grandmother's financial affairs (subject to any limitation placed in the EPA.)

The worse case scenario is that grandmother will eventually loose her ability to look after her own financial affairs. When this happens your father will be ever-so-glad that an EPA was put into place because when a person passes the 'threshold' of not being able to look after their own affairs the Court of Protection (COP) takes over automatically, by law. They will appoint an Attorney to look after your grandmother's financial affairs, unless 1. a family member applies directly, or 2. an existing EPA is formally registered with them. In the meantime all of your grandmother's financial affairs are frozen - including (and most people do not realise this) any joint bank accounts. All previous mandates (e.g. third party bank mandates) are terminated.

I understand it takes around 16 weeks for the COP to register an application that is not an EPA; the time for registering an EPA is around 4 weeks. 4 weeks is along time for a person's financial affairs to be tied up - 16 weeks creates chaos, and hardship.

The cost of dealing with the COP is not particularly cheap; but registering an EPA is still slightly cheaper than applying directly after a person has lost their ability to look after their financial affairs.

The cost of creating an EPA will vary (£35 - £90, possibly more in view of the extra work that might be required. Ask around - solicitors, will writers.) The document might need to be supported by a statement from a specialist that your grandmother appeared to understand what she was signing. Indeed I would recommend you obtain such a document; the last thing you want is for some family member to acuse your dad of taking advantage of his mother's situation. (Again earlier posts elude to this very common accusation. And yes, the abuse of the power granted in the EPA is also common which is why the Government are replacing the EPA with the Lasting Power of Attorney in October 2007 - but your grandmother should put one into place today, not in 5 months time.) The EPA document does make provision for people who find it difficult to sign the document.

In many ways you are luckier than many, you have been given the warning signs and a second opportunity to ease the situation. Many families do not get this second window of opportunity you have been given. Please don't waste it.

moanymoany

I know where your parents are at with the stress as we have been there. You will probably need to get your grandmother under the care of the Court of Protection. They can then authorise your parent to act for her.

This site gives the nuts and bolts, it is a government site.

Tell all of the people involved in your grandmother's financial affairs, by letter, what has happened and what you are doing about it.

I know someone this happened to and this is what happened.

Good luck. Make sure your parents have the occasional break. The carers need to care for themselves as well. They are lucky to have you to help. We had our wonderful daughter who was a tower of strength.

This is the address.
http://www.guardianship.gov.uk/formsdocuments/publications.htm

or type Court of Protection into the search engine.

margaretclare

Yes, there is a strong possibility that someone who has had one stroke may have others. I'm an ex-nurse, my late husband had strokes from 1986 onwards. Think of the circulatory system as being like a plumbing system with the heart as the pump. We've had these problems with other family members and the engineers in the family, although they have no medical knowledge, understood the problem very well when explained like this.

Yes, it's a fact that 'helpful family members' do in fact help themselves when given access to an older person's accounts. It's called 'elderly financial abuse' and it's a huge problem. It's known that carers/relatives can 'groom' an older relative, emotional blackmail, all kinds of things. Have a look on the Help the Aged site for 'Joan's story' if you don't believe me. http://www.helptheaged.org.uk/en-gb

Why oh why are so many people averse to direct debits which can remove the worry about paying bills. I was in hospital in December 2005 and women in the ward around me were stressing about not being able to get out to get their pension in cash, pay their bills etc. All I had to worry about was getting better, secure in the knowledge that all our household bills get paid automatically within the first few days of every month.

Margaret

buster1967

Willman yes we do know my gran probably will have other strokes m8 which at her age is almost a certainty, i hope she doesnt but the likelyhood is she will.

moanymoany we have a big family and my gran always has visitors,and she is moaning about other people where she is so thats a good sign LOL.

margaret its nothing short of disgraceful that someone would do that to anyone nevermind a family member.

what is money compared to the health of one of your family.as ive said all my dad wanted to do was change my gran's savings account to a current account so her bills can be paid by direct debit,and with all this hassle he has had he has told my mother she should change hers to a current account.


Willman Rodders/moanymoany/margaretclare thank you all very much for all the information and links its very very good of you to post them up.

my gran has had a good life and i hope she has a few years left in her still.