Tupe process / new contract

barginbin

I'm in desperate need of some advice and help about my current situation.

I work for company A and I have been told (in January) Company B will be employing us from April following the Tupe process.

We have been going through a consultation process and was told me had two options:

1 - Be employed by company B under the same terms company A was offering us.

2 - Sign a new contract for company B.

Now today I have had a HR meeting and they basically tried to bully me into signing the new contract. They said if I didn't sign the new contract I would no longer have a job come the end of the month. But if I continued to work all of next month upon receiving my first pay packet from company B I would automatically be accepting the new contract.

They have given me a contract at the HR meeting today (for the first time in written format, it was made available on the Intranet before) and it has the wrong start date for employment on it. I told them that needs changing and I need a copy of the employee hand book (which hasn't been made available in any format) for me to consider before signing.

Long and short is I dont want to sign company B's contract because I would loose 4 weeks sick pay. I dont plan to go off sick but like having the back up if I need it.

Can they get rid of me?

Can they force me to sign the Company B contract?

Help me please!!

busy_mom_2

My other half is going through a similar thing you do not have to sign but i would suggest you speak to ACAS or get some proper advice advice, union maybe?
They are trying to blackmail my hubby into a 4 on 4 off shift, at present he doesn't work Saturday. They are saying if he doesn't sign there will be no overtime which for us means a loss of around £400-600 a mnth.

barginbin

busy_mom wrote: »

My other half is going through a similar thing you do not have to sign but i would suggest you speak to ACAS or get some proper advice advice, union maybe?
They are trying to blackmail my hubby into a 4 on 4 off shift, at present he doesn't work Saturday. They are saying if he doesn't sign there will be no overtime which for us means a loss of around £400-600 a mnth.

Sorry to hear that!

Unfortunately I'm not part of a union so I cant go down that road.

I'm planning to contact the Citizen Advice first thing tomorrow morning and hopefully get an appointment with someone who specialises in employment law.

busy_mom_2

Good luck, is it just yourself or are there others?
This is the third time this has happened to hubby. Last time was three years ago and he only changed to a new contact 12 mnths ago. This time it has been a different kettle of fish and I must admit he and one other college who he works very closely with have stuck together and been to all consultations together to support one another, can you do this?

barginbin

busy_mom wrote: »

Good luck, is it just yourself or are there others?
This is the third time this has happened to hubby. Last time was three years ago and he only changed to a new contact 12 mnths ago. This time it has been a different kettle of fish and I must admit he and one other college who he works very closely with have stuck together and been to all consultations together to support one another, can you do this?

It's just me as everyone else has decided to sign it. I have been told because I have less than 2 years service basically they have got me over a barrel. I'm not sure why 2 years service is important though?!

I hope his situation gets sorted soon as it can be very stressful to say the least! :eek:

mariefab

If this transfer is definitely one to which TUPE applies; option 1 is usually the only option.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/246/regulation/4/made

As for the consultation process:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/246/regulation/13/made

As you can see in the links above, if the new employer wants to make any changes (measures) you should be informed of this.
However, changes can only be enforced if they are either unconnected to the transfer (which may not be the case here) or if they are for an ETO reason.
(Case law shows that ETO reasons are much more limited than some employers seem to think they are.)

1. What reasons have you been given for the proposed removal of 4 weeks sick pay?

2. Are there any other changes in the new contract?

3. Is the consultation being done by the old (transferor)or the new employer(transfree)?

4. If it's the old employer doing the consultation; are you and the other employees who are being transferred to Company B the only employees that Company A has?
If not, are all of Company A's other employees losing their sick pay too?

2 years service is not important in this context.

I wouldn't sign the new contract at this stage.
Depending on the answer to 4 above it's possible that you might want to sign it in a month.

breton_2

mariefab wrote: »

If this transfer is definitely one to which TUPE applies; option 1 is usually the only option.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/246/regulation/4/made

As for the consultation process:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/246/regulation/13/made

As you can see in the links above, if the new employer wants to make any changes (measures) you should be informed of this.
However, changes can only be enforced if they are either unconnected to the transfer (which may not be the case here) or if they are for an ETO reason.
(Case law shows that ETO reasons are much more limited than some employers seem to think they are.)

1. What reasons have you been given for the proposed removal of 4 weeks sick pay?

2. Are there any other changes in the new contract?

3. Is the consultation being done by the old (transferor)or the new employer(transfree)?

4. If it's the old employer doing the consultation; are you and the other employees who are being transferred to Company B the only employees that Company A has?
If not, are all of Company A's other employees losing their sick pay too?

2 years service is not important in this context.

I wouldn't sign the new contract at this stage.
Depending on the answer to 4 above it's possible that you might want to sign it in a month.

Very logic advise, love to know the answer to those 4 questions.
Quite sure a new contract with Company B is not the correct choice but have to evaluate the situation, ie who has the power.

barginbin

*Update*

Company A line manager got my email and phoned HR to tell them my concerns they turned round and said they're still sticking to their guns. I said well if they are not willing to negotiate I will be forced to start the grievance procedure as I feel they have not followed the proper process (or any for that matter!!).

He made a call to HR and I got a very swift phone call back from my line manager to say they will let me stay on my current contract and will I still be taking out the grievance. I said no on the condition I get it in writing that I will be staying on my current contract. They said they will send it to me in writing but not until next month as the tupe transfer happens on the 1st of April so they wont send the letter before then. I have agreed to this and said if I dont receive the letter by the 17th of April I will be taking out the grievance against the company.

Thanks for everyone's advice and help, I think my situation shows the power that YOU have. These mangers are bluffing 99% of the time as soon as they think you know more than them they will fold under the pressure

Takeaway_Addict

barginbin wrote: »

*Update*

Company A line manager got my email and phoned HR to tell them my concerns they turned round and said they're still sticking to their guns. I said well if they are not willing to negotiate I will be forced to start the grievance procedure as I feel they have not followed the proper process (or any for that matter!!).

He made a call to HR and I got a very swift phone call back from my line manager to say they will let me stay on my current contract and will I still be taking out the grievance. I said no on the condition I get it in writing that I will be staying on my current contract. They said they will send it to me in writing but not until next month as the tupe transfer happens on the 1st of April so they wont send the letter before then. I have agreed to this and said if I dont receive the letter by the 17th of April I will be taking out the grievance against the company.

Thanks for everyone's advice and help, I think my situation shows the power that YOU have. These mangers are bluffing 99% of the time as soon as they think you know more than them they will fold under the pressure

Evidence on this 99%?

Its more likely they felt as most had agreed it was easier just to accept your request and then mark your card for the future if redundancies are brought up.

busy_mom_2

Good luck bargainbin.

My hubby had to go in for another consultation tonight, they are now happy for him not to change contract but when he offered to work the two extra shifts next week they said no need so looks like for us the overtime has gone. tighten belts time.