changing electricity meter and switching supplier

glocal

I just bought a property and I discovered that the previous owner recently had a single rate meter installed. I see now it would probably cost a lot less to switch back to dual rate. I am also thinking about using Energyhelpline or similar to compare different suppliers. I am not bound by a contract with npower, my current supplier, and there are no exit fees. Is there a charge for getting a meter installed? I am not sure if I should get npower to change the meter first and then switch suppliers, or the other way round. One advantage of doing the former might be asking them to project my dual rate consumption pattern to the past three week period, but I am not sure if the new meter comes with a contract.

Also, Cooperative Energy looks good, but has anyone experience of collective buying schemes like http://gmfairenergy.ichoosr.com ? I am based in Manchester, although I think the scheme is available to all UK residents.

Fire_Fox

Do you have storage heaters? Yes there is a charge for electively installing a new meter, contact each supplier to see which is the cheapest.

glocal

It may be that some waive the fee in return for a contract. I'll check, thanks.

I do have storage heaters but I hardly never use them, and when I do I use them for heating on demand. I can't understand the concept of storage heating and 24 hour heating over several months.

It's the water heater that makes me think I should switch to E7. It alone consumes 17kWh every night to heat 250 litres. Short of replacing the water heater with something smaller or more efficient, I think all I can do is go for cheaper electricity.

Wywth

glocal wrote: »

Also, Cooperative Energy looks good, but has anyone experience of collective buying schemes like http://gmfairenergy.ichoosr.com ? I am based in Manchester, although I think the scheme is available to all UK residents.

Why restrict yourself to one supplier and a tariff they choose from their range to bid to the collective buying scheme?

Check the whole of market for yourself and get yourself the best deal

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/you-switch-gas-electricity

Fire_Fox

glocal wrote: »

It may be that some waive the fee in return for a contract. I'll check, thanks.

I do have storage heaters but I hardly never use them, and when I do I use them for heating on demand. I can't understand the concept of storage heating and 24 hour heating over several months.

It's the water heater that makes me think I should switch to E7. It alone consumes 17kWh every night to heat 250 litres. Short of replacing the water heater with something smaller or more efficient, I think all I can do is go for cheaper electricity.

If you are rarely using storage heaters it's unlikely you would be better off using E7. You will only get cheaper energy at night, everything you use in the day would be massively more expensive. I *think* the split is 40/60 to break even, have you done the maths and fed your numbers in KWH into a price comparison site?

Have you tried simply using less hot water, insulating the immersion you have better, setting it for less time or adjusting the temperature on it? Do you have only one element or two? When was it last serviced, is it possible the thermostat or timer are faulty?

If you make 250 litres of very hot water (17KWH) you should be able to stretch that out for two to three days because you are diluting it down with cold. Or you make 250 litres of warm water every day (say 10KWH) you don't dilute much with cold and it only lasts 24 hours. Strip wash or turn the shower off whilst you soap up (just on to wet and rinse), if you only need a sinkful or two of water to wash dishes or wash you boil a kettle.

HappyMJ

glocal wrote: »

It may be that some waive the fee in return for a contract. I'll check, thanks.

I do have storage heaters but I hardly never use them, and when I do I use them for heating on demand. I can't understand the concept of storage heating and 24 hour heating over several months.

It's the water heater that makes me think I should switch to E7. It alone consumes 17kWh every night to heat 250 litres. Short of replacing the water heater with something smaller or more efficient, I think all I can do is go for cheaper electricity.

250 litres of hot water is a lot. How many people in the house? Do you all have baths or long power showers?

glocal

I was horrified to discover that the heater consumes 17kWh overnight out of 22kWh total for the whole day. That's about 75/25. When the heater is off, daily consumption drops to 6kWh which makes sense. Apparently, it is designed for 5-6 people but there are two of us and use it for a couple showers, plus the occasional washing up (we use a dish washer normally). Otherwise, light bulbs were replaced with LED bulbs, all appliances are run in economy mode etc. I simply can't believe that using the heater as we do still costs £1-2.50 a night depending on rates.

While trying to use electricity as efficiently as possible, based on my small sample of readings over the last couple of weeks, I told comparison sites I used 8000kWh pa (about 23kWh/day) at 75/25 for night/day, which is obviously over-estimated as consumption drops in the summer months. I was shocked to see that without heating or even incandescent bulbs, the best deal was £700 pa.

Better insulation might help, particularly as despite the 250 litres of hot water in the morning, we only get lukewarm water in the early evening. We can't possibly consume 250 litres of very hot water (ie over 300 litres of mixed water) in under 12 hours. The water heater was serviced a month ago though. There are two elements at 3kW each. I even considered having the heater replaced or getting an electric power shower. I think I will have to monitor the situation. If heating 250 litres inevitably takes that much energy, the key question is why it runs out within hours and water heating has to start all over again from scratch every night.

Many thanks for the replies. Any ideas will be greatly appreciated because I am running out of ideas myself.

More details in my other thread: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/59910687#Comment_59910687

@Wywth, these collective buying schemes involve an auction and the implication is that suppliers offer better prices than advertised to get the deal. I was hoping I would find historical data about previous auctions to see how prices compared to advertised rates, but I couldn't. If anyone has experience of these schemes, perhaps he/she could share.

Wywth

glocal wrote: »

@Wywth, these collective buying schemes involve an auction and the implication is that suppliers offer better prices than advertised to get the deal.

That is the implication, but the reality is only a few suppliers even bother bidding, and those that do bid using one of their existing generally available tariffs.

... and of course you don't get any cashback either.

glocal

@Wywth, good to know that. I suspected something like that might happen.

In the meanwhile, I am getting somewhere with troubleshooting the water heater situation. I didn't use any of the 250 litres of hot water today. Yet, the water was almost cold by the evening. I really can't see where all that heat has gone, but this explains why the heater will use 17kWh every night. It simply starts from cold all over again! If it only lost the energy the manufacturer says in the spec, it would only need energy to top-up. The peculiar thing is the heater was serviced weeks before I purchased the property, and I have the report as well. Perhaps an expensive visit from a plumber is inevitable now. The manufacturer may have something to say. If consumption returns to normal (whatever that is), chances are I won't need the dual rate as I don't use storage heaters.

glocal

For other people's benefit, I discovered what the problem was. The third switch (marked 'FAN') was turning a pump attached to the heater on/off. Switching it off doesn't seem to change anything, so I did. Now, hot water doesn't run out in the evening, water heating doesn't start all over again at midnight, and topping up consumes 7kWh a day (compared to 17kWh). Somehow, the pump running 24/7 accelerated heat loss apparently.