term time school hols (yes, again!)

Zziggi

bunty109 wrote: »

With regard to your third question, as a school governor, the Governing Body approves/reviews the policy for dealing with such absences so a parent may have a case of recourse to the governors.....I assume that it isn't just my school that has such policies.

I don't know about the first 2 as FPNs aren't issued by my LEA as far as I am aware...

I guess then it could depend on how independent the Governing Body is form the Head.

As I said, i have never ever taken the kids away from school in term-time but I am curious to know what the criterior on making the decision is. From the little info we got from DS's school there appears to be very little criteria and that what little criteria there is, it is VERY vague. This tends to give me the impression it is a decision that the Head can make without much guidance i.e. the decision *could* be heavily biased due to favouritism, discrimination etc etc.

bunty109

Zziggi wrote: »

I guess then it could depend on how independent the Governing Body is form the Head.

As I said, i have never ever taken the kids away from school in term-time but I am curious to know what the criterior on making the decision is. From the little info we got from DS's school there appears to be very little criteria and that what little criteria there is, it is VERY vague. This tends to give me the impression it is a decision that the Head can make without much guidance i.e. the decision *could* be heavily biased due to favouritism, discrimination etc etc.

True, I guess, but precedent can then at least be set. For example, if word gets round that the Head authorised little Susie's absence to go and visit relatives in Australia, then surely the Head couldn't refuse other parents wanting to take their children to do the same/similar?

The criteria is very vague as the Government hasn't really handed down anything concrete so it is up to Heads to decide how to handle it. In my experience, from September holidays can only be taken in term-time if parents can't get time off work during school holidays or if there are extenuating circumstances such as illness or bereavement. But you are right: I believe it is very much left open to interpretation. I don't think a Head could get away with being inconsistent though as too many parents are there to catch them out!!!

Elle00

It wasn't all that long ago that I left school and my permanent record was basically one big black mark. I got very good grades though so what did I care?! No-one has ever asked to see my permanent record, or even proof of my qualifications come to think of it!

I think permanent records must be a school thing meaning that if she had one littered with negative things she might not get into the college or uni of her choice if she wanted to attend one; but as one of the "bad kids" I can assure that one black mark for unauthorised absence means absolutely nothing compared to what a genuinely bad school record looks like. When she breaks my record of 35% attendance for a year then you should worry.

I think the situation is ludicrous anyway. There's a reason I rarely attended school; it bored me stupid and I often learnt more from watching Richard & Judy. I really do not see how ten days off school to bond with her family and learn about another culture is in anyway detrimental to our slow educational process. If she had special needs or was due to take exams it might be different but I don't see why you've even been bought into question about this when you're blatantly well aware of your daughter's best interests in saying how you're only doing this while she's young.

If all else fails, get your Mum to ring in while you're away and tell them she's looking after your kids while you're in hospital following an accident. They can't ask for proof of YOUR medical situation and wouldn't expect a distraught child to attend for the week...

kaykay_2

In response to your questions:-
1. The FPN payments do go back into the Local Authority to fund the process of enforcement - collection or prosecution in the event of non- pyament.
2. The Antisoical Behaviour Act 2003 made provision for Headteachers, Police Officers and Local Authority officers to issue FPN's although the Local Authority have the responsibility for oversight of ensuring consistency of application. In my authority a Headteacher requesting pursual of an FPN for unauthorised holiday would have to provide a witness statement and certificate of attendance along with other paperwork.
3. The Headteacher of a school has the ultimate responsibility for deciding whether an absence should be authorised or not. This is what the Law says - parents don't - however they do not have the final say in whether an FPN is issued - as i said above the LA has to have oversight.
By the way on a personal front - fortunately i dont have to make the decisions about whether an FPN is issued for holidays - i do sympathise with parents about the dilemnas they face in relation to this and i can see the positives of children having learning experiences other than at school. The Heads i work with acknowledge there are grey areas, and i feel use FPN's appropriately( and rarely).
Hope this help to clarify things.
p.s I did read an interesting post about withholding contributory payments for trips/ fundraising etc to offset the cost of taking a holiday in peak time in another thread!!

kaykay_2

Elle83 wrote: »

It wasn't all that long ago that I left school and my permanent record was basically one big black mark. I got very good grades though so what did I care?! No-one has ever asked to see my permanent record, or even proof of my qualifications come to think of it!

I think permanent records must be a school thing meaning that if she had one littered with negative things she might not get into the college or uni of her choice if she wanted to attend one; but as one of the "bad kids" I can assure that one black mark for unauthorised absence means absolutely nothing compared to what a genuinely bad school record looks like. When she breaks my record of 35% attendance for a year then you should worry.

I think the situation is ludicrous anyway. There's a reason I rarely attended school; it bored me stupid and I often learnt more from watching Richard & Judy. I really do not see how ten days off school to bond with her family and learn about another culture is in anyway detrimental to our slow educational process. If she had special needs or was due to take exams it might be different but I don't see why you've even been bought into question about this when you're blatantly well aware of your daughter's best interests in saying how you're only doing this while she's young.

If all else fails, get your Mum to ring in while you're away and tell them she's looking after your kids while you're in hospital following an accident. They can't ask for proof of YOUR medical situation and wouldn't expect a distraught child to attend for the week...

Your comments have been made with you in mind lets not forget that putting the holiday issue asside some children have very different circumstances to yours. Just because you found school boring doesnt mean that every child who doesnt attend well feels the same. Education is every childs right - most children would not acheive what they are capable of with just 35% attendance. Some children are kept off school against their will or not given the support and encouragement needed - some childrens circumstances are unbelievably sad. Maybe if you had attended school more you would have realised that school/ life has much more to offer than Richard and Judy.
I dont think you have really thought through the lying to school thing either - how will the child feel when school staff ask how her mum is - children should not be put in that situation or made to tell lies because of adults decisions in this way!

Elle00

kaykay wrote: »

Your comments have been made with you in mind lets not forget that putting the holiday issue asside some children have very different circumstances to yours. Just because you found school boring doesnt mean that every child who doesnt attend well feels the same. Education is every childs right - most children would not acheive what they are capable of with just 35% attendance. Some children are kept off school against their will or not given the support and encouragement needed - some childrens circumstances are unbelievably sad. Maybe if you had attended school more you would have realised that school/ life has much more to offer than Richard and Judy.
I dont think you have really thought through the lying to school thing either - how will the child feel when school staff ask how her mum is - children should not be put in that situation or made to tell lies because of adults decisions in this way!

Yes but as plenty of people have addressed the other issues the OP had, I was simply wanting to offer some reassurance that a single black mark in the grand scheme of things isn't something to worry about as no-one else had addressed that concern.

Please refrain from making personal remarks like "Maybe if you had attended school more you would have realised that school/ life has much more to offer than Richard and Judy." because they are malicious and unnecessary. You do not know what my circumstances were and were not invitied to comment considering this thread is designed to assist the OP with their concerns rather than debate other people's responses. If you do not feel a child should be made to lie, bearing in mind that a similar suggestion was made by another poster that you have not attacked, then you should say so off your own bat rather than quoting other people to turn a positive think-tank into a negative argument. I'm quite sure that the OP is capable of making up her own mind having read all of the suggestions.

pboae

If you decide to cancel, check with your travel agent, etc first, you may be able to move the holiday to another date for a minimal admin charge, so you won't lose your deposit.

Zziggi

kaykay wrote: »

p.s I did read an interesting post about withholding contributory payments for trips/ fundraising etc to offset the cost of taking a holiday in peak time in another thread!!

Yes, that would be my position too if i was ever given a £50 fine that i felt was unfair. Not to mention I wouldn't be going in and helping out the school anymore. The school would lose more than £50 over it, no 'contributory' fees for school trips or music lessons, no helping in the classes, no free resources (especially as i have personally saved the school at least £300 this term alone in resources and expertise in certain areas). I just hope it never comes to this - but interesting to know the position of someone who works at the LEA - thanks!

Hapless_2

Education is every childs right

Every child has a right to be educated in accordance to their parents wishes.(human rights act)


*my children would be at school but no school educates them to my wishes*

Spendless

Zziggi wrote: »

but I do strongly object to having to "request" permission from the Headteacher, I am the parent - not the school. Should we ever wish to take a term-time holiday I will not be requesting permission from the school but politely informing them of my intentions.

The procedure where my kids go, is to request a holiday form from the school office, which has more or less basic questions on it like childs name, but also asks "what is the reason for the holidy taking place in term time". and the school secretary has to fill in the % absence the child has had. There is also a question saying something like "is this the only holiday the child has had during this academic year" and if the answer is no then question "provide more details". This is handed into the school office and then you get the form back a few weeks later stamped authorised or unauthorised.



OP-If you go away Sept/Oct this year it will be in a different academic year, and you would get round the more than 10 days taken this academic year, but Ican understand if you prefer not to do this, as it means going out of school at the beginning of a school year and when she's in a higher year. Is going a few days before may 1/2 term an option, that way you might only be away the 4 days the school will authorise.
We are going away this year in Oct half term, and I was thrilled to find it so cheap- why? because for some reason our area is off the week after the majority of the rest of the country. OP-That may be worth looking into, when your Oct half term is this year. Ours starts w/c Mon 29 Oct.