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POPLA Decisions

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  • Hi Guys

    I had a case where I was given three tickets for parking in a parking space in my own apartment complex. I appealed to POPLA and all three were allowed on no genuine pre-estimate of loss.

    Premier Parking Solutions Ltd. The rest of the case was so full of holes that I was very optimistic.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 152,071 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Hi Guys

    I had a case where I was given three tickets for parking in a parking space in my own apartment complex. I appealed to POPLA and all three were allowed on no genuine pre-estimate of loss.

    Premier Parking Solutions Ltd. The rest of the case was so full of holes that I was very optimistic.




    Well done for appealing on that basis! :T

    Most cases can be won on no 'GPEOL' - but really only if the signage suggests 'breach of ' or 'failure to comply with' car park terms. So we mustn't get complacent on here...;)
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 152,071 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 21 November 2013 at 11:39AM
    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=82285

    EXCEL LOST ON NO GPEOL DESPITE THEIR LIST OF 'COSTS'


    The Appellant appealed against liability for the parking charge.
    2562663503 15 November 2013
    The Assessor has considered the evidence of both parties and has
    determined that the appeal be allowed.

    The Assessor’s reasons are as set out.
    The Operator should now cancel the parking charge notice forthwith.

    Reasons for the Assessor’s Determination
    ...vehicle parked at the car park in The Square (Chorlton-***-Hardy).
    The Operator’s case is that the Appellant breached the car parking
    conditions by parking without displaying a valid ticket/permit.

    The Appellant made representations stating her case. The Appellant raised a number of points and one of the points she raised was that the signage states that a PCN would be issued for a “failure to comply” with the terms of parking, which indicates that the parking charge represents damages for a breach of the parking contract. Accordingly, the parking charge must be a genuine pre-estimate of loss. The Appellant states that the parking charge is punitive and an unenforceable penalty charge. Furthermore, the Appellant states that the Operator has not provided any evidence as to how and why the parking charge is a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

    The Operator has submitted that its charges have been held to be
    enforceable in previous cases; however, the Operator has not produced any evidence to justify this parking charge. The losses suffered by breaches of a parking contract may vary depending on the nature of the car park, and the nature of the breach. That a parking charge at a certain level is held not to be a penalty in one car park, does not mean that the same sum is a preestimate of the loss caused in every car park.

    The Operator has produced a statement which it submits justifies the charge as a pre-estimate of loss; however, I am not minded to accept this
    justification. The Operator must show that the charge sought is a genuine
    estimate of the potential loss caused by the parking breach. The Operator
    has produced a list of costs; however, these appear to be general
    operational costs, and not losses consequential to the Appellant’s breach.
    The onus is on the Operator to prove its case on the balance of probabilities.

    Accordingly, once an Appellant submits that the parking charge is not a
    genuine pre-estimate of loss, the onus is on the Operator to produce some
    explanation or evidence in order to tip the balance in its favour. In this case the Operator has not provided any evidence as to why this charge in a genuine pre-estimate of loss. I am not minded to accept that it is
    sufficient to simply list the names of previous cases without applying them to this case.

    Consequently I must find that the Operator has failed to produce sufficient
    evidence to demonstrate that the parking charge is a genuine pre-estimate
    of loss.
    I need not decide any other issues.
    Accordingly, the appeal is allowed.

    :T
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • ClausMargot
    ClausMargot Posts: 4 Newbie
    edited 18 November 2013 at 3:58PM
    Thank you Guys Dad, Scouse Magic and Coupon-mad. I posted on 12/08 about a parking ticket from UK CPM and have been successful in our appeal to POPLA.

    After reading a lot of the cases on this thread, we appealed on the basis of insufficient signage, but we also decided to include a submission that UK CPM were not acting on behalf of the free holder.

    As UK CPM did not provide any evidence to demonstrate that they were acting on behalf of the free holder, POPLA have ruled in our favour.

    "The operator does respond to the appellant's submission that they act on behalf of freeholder, however, they have not provided valid evidence to demonstrate such point.

    Having considered all the evidence before me, I must find that on this particular occasion, the operator has failed to provide a written contract or witness statement to evidence that they have authority from the landowner to issue parking charges. As the appellant raised the issue, the burden of proof has shifted to the operator to prove that they do. The operator has not discharged the burden. Accordingly, this appeal must be allowed."

    UK CPM have since put up more signage, which is also BPA compliant. So I wonder if we would have been successful on the signage arguement.

    Perhaps we just got lucky that they couldn't be bothered to provide the evidence required...
  • bod1467
    bod1467 Posts: 15,214 Forumite
    Signage can be a 50/50 appeal point.

    No Authority (that you won on) and No GPEoL seem to be the silver bullets at the moment. :)
  • 'No authority' only seems to win when the PPC sends NOTHING back [other than they themselves stating they have authority].
    A 'Greenslade statement' [basically a 'proper' witness statement attesting that they have authority] still seems to be accepted by POPLA [who employ a certain Mr Greenslade].

    GPEOL wins even when the PPC sends back a 'proper/3 page' response.

    Signage needs to be properly tested on a 'single point of appeal' basis. A few hardcore members are pursuing this route atm.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 152,071 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 19 November 2013 at 2:47AM
    Guess what?

    Another day another ParkingEye 'no Genuine Pre-estimate of loss' decision, this one at the infamous Tower Road Newquay:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/63813086#Comment_63813086

    simon196 'I received an email from POPLA Appeal Admin......my heart missed a beat as I read it..... Basically it said that we had raised several issues in our representation, however there was only one issue on which the appeal was being allowed.

    The email went on to say that the parking charge does not represent the operators loss and so is not enforceable and that the operator had not addressed this submission.

    The assessor actually said " It appears to be the appellants case that the parking charge represents a sum for specified damages, in other words compensation agreed in advance. Accordingly the charge must represent a genuine pre-estimate of the loss caused by the alleged breach. The operator does not appear to dispute that the sum represents damages, and has not attempted to justify the charge as a genuine pre-estimate of loss."

    He went on to say "Consequently, I have no evidence before me to refute the appellants submission that the parking charge is unenforceable.

    Accordingly I must allow the appeal.'
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • I appealed and won at POPLA on 23rd October 2013 and was told the ticket would now be cancelled. However, rather than this being the case I have now received 2 letters from debt recovery plus asking for £149 otherwise court proceedings.

    I have replied back to them with a copy of the popla decision and told them to stop contacting me, as I do not owe anything. However, they arent listening. I contacted BPA and advised them of the situation, but they arent going to help. Ive contacted POPLA again to advise them of the ticket hasnt been cancelled and they said they would write out again to Park Direct.

    My question is what can I do shall I just ignore these letters knowing I have no case to answer as POPLA upheld my appeal, or should I try and get them to stop by contacting them again?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 152,071 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 20 November 2013 at 4:01PM
    Well done again on your POPLA appeal win (I see you posted about it already here). Complain about DebtRPlus to the Credit Services Association (Google it).
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • I received a "fake" PCN from Excel Parking at the Peel Centre, Stockport on 29/06/13.

    After gratefully receiving advice from a number of members on here I have just received confirmation from POPLA that my appeal has been ALLOWED! The reason.....GPEOL.

    Thank you so much to Coupon-Mad and Umkomaas who helped with the appeal wording.
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