Probate/intestacy stalemate query

getmore4less

There is still the question why no original.

Is the lost/stolen claim more probable than distroyed.

Is there a previous will that did give to both.
What was the timing in relation to the new will, any significant events around the estate and health that triggered a new will.

There is also the question of why has the brother not proceeded to court to get the copy will accepted.

posttokev

NAR wrote: »

This is very different from post #1 where you stated she died intestate.

As far as I was aware, to die without leaving a valid will meant that she had died intestate. Obviously I'm learning now that it's not as simple as that.

posttokev

securityguy wrote: »

The problem is that destroying a will (if that's what your grandmother did) doesn't revoke it, if there are other copies that might be shown to be valid. So if, for example, a firm of solicitors have a copy and the original is lost, and the solicitors have a file note showing that it was signed and witnessed, a court might (balance of probabilities, remember, this being a civil action) accept it. The argument that she wrote a will, subsequently it was lost, but here's a copy which a firm of solicitors is willing to attest to, might work. It would push the ball into your court; you would have to show either that the will was revoked and your grandmother is therefore intestate, or that there is a subsequent will with different provisions. From the sound of things, you don't have evidence of either.

Trying to get the estate declared intestate might force your uncle's hand to produce what he has. But from the sounds of it, although he might be bluffing, he might actually have some cards.

The file note's another issue as it's looking like the solicitors for my grandmother haven't got one.

posttokev

securityguy wrote: »

So there would be two stages. Uncle produces copy. Is this copy deemed to be a valid copy of a potentially contested will? If no, she's intestate.

I think this is the main thing we need to clarify at this stage. If it were lookign to go to a costly court fight, I think my mother would let the matter drop and at least know she's done all she could to honour her parents' wishes.

posttokev

getmore4less wrote: »

There is still the question why no original.

Is the lost/stolen claim more probable than distroyed.

Is there a previous will that did give to both.
What was the timing in relation to the new will, any significant events around the estate and health that triggered a new will.

There is also the question of why has the brother not proceeded to court to get the copy will accepted.

We've since found out my second cousin robbed her house a couple of years ago. (It went to court.) It's being claimed he stole the will then (no reason given as to why he would do this - he also took money and jewellery), but we believe my grandmother destroyed the will before she died.

I don't know if there was a previous will or how I would go about finding it.

We've heard nothing from my uncle on this for months now. He's just assuming he gets everything and that's the end of the matter.

securityguy

posttokev wrote: »

As far as I was aware, to die without leaving a valid will meant that she had died intestate. Obviously I'm learning now that it's not as simple as that.

That's right. The question is, what does "not leaving a valid will" mean? The uncle claims to hold one, or at least a copy of one which a court might accept. Unfortunately, deciding if it is valid is what courts are for, and they aren't cheap.

posttokev

securityguy wrote: »

That's right. The question is, what does "not leaving a valid will" mean? The uncle claims to hold one, or at least a copy of one which a court might accept. Unfortunately, deciding if it is valid is what courts are for, and they aren't cheap.

That's it in a nutshell, but I do still wonder why, if he believes it cannot be challenged, he felt the need to ask my mother to have the estate signed over to him though. All very curious, and his side of the family makes sure we get as little information as possible. A lot's gone on that they don't want us to know about.

getmore4less

I think the next step is get another STEP solicitor on the case one that deals with disputes and try to get letters of administartion based on no valid will, the at will force his hand to get a copy accepted.

you could try a post where some practicing solicitors post.
http://boards.fool.co.uk/wills-probate-practical-51094.aspx

posttokev

getmore4less wrote: »

I think the next step is get another STEP solicitor on the case one that deals with disputes and try to get letters of administartion based on no valid will, the at will force his hand to get a copy accepted.

you could try a post where some practicing solicitors post.
http://boards.fool.co.uk/wills-probate-practical-51094.aspx

That's a great help. Thanks very much for that.

NAR

I look forward to the next chapter in this "best seller." :beer: