Probate/intestacy stalemate query

posttokev

...and any thoughts on all the other points I've mentioned?

securityguy

posttokev wrote: »

Again, then why is it stated as such?

Where? You appear to believe that the contents of the will file override the will. They don't. They might, possibly, if you're very lucky, provide some background to things that are unclear or provide some evidence in arguments about undue influence. They might even help you in finding that a contested will is not valid if it shows that, for example, the contents of the will are wildly different.

But if a will is valid, then the plain meaning of the words in it absolutely trump anything in the notes that lead up to its preparation (as the other thread about a bank's will-writing service shows). If A cuts B out of the will, then A cut B out of their will. If they wanted to rescind that, they needed to alter their will. End of.

As to your other points, they're hardly points. Is it the responsibility of a solicitor to advise the client on where to keep documents? No. Does that someone is upset invalidate their drafting of a will? No. You've gone to a lot of effort to get the will file, but you appear to believe it has some status as a commentary or gloss on the will itself. It doesn't.

posttokev

securityguy wrote: »

Where? You appear to believe that the contents of the will file override the will. They don't. They might, possibly, if you're very lucky, provide some background to things that are unclear or provide some evidence in arguments about undue influence. They might even help you in finding that a contested will is not valid if it shows that, for example, the contents of the will are wildly different.

But if a will is valid, then the plain meaning of the words in it absolutely trump anything in the notes that lead up to its preparation (as the other thread about a bank's will-writing service shows). If A cuts B out of the will, then A cut B out of their will. If they wanted to rescind that, they needed to alter their will. End of.

It's not "end of" from the advice I'm getting, but all viewpoints are much appreciated.

posttokev

...any thoughts on the other points still much appreciated. I still feel it's valid for me to have queried them.

John_Pierpoint

Funny old business wills - a friend has a parent who recently died and it turns out he as jumped a generation by leaving the estate to the grandchildren, now in their 20s & 30s; however the grandchildren have inherited in the percentage that their parents would have got has the will not jumped a generation.
Even this is contentious.

Then there is the will that I have recently administered that named grandchildren individually and so did not include a grandchild adopted into the family subsequent to the signing of the will.
[My attitude has always been "that is the way the cookie crumbles" as it is an act of God; once attempts are made to jigger about with the outcome; suddenly it is not God's fault any more.]

Anyway I am not legally qualified but here is the top link in Google when searching lost/destroyed will. I particularly liked the will that left everything to
charity, but the will had mysteriously disappeared.

http://www.crippslink.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&catid=21%3Atrustestate-disputes-publications&id=612%3Alost-wills&Itemid=537

Of course all this could be conspiracy, but if grandmother wanted to change her decision to disinherit her daughter, she should have made another will starting "I revoke ........."

Given a solicitor and independent witnesses turning up in court to say yes that is the will my partnership drafted and yes that is my signature; I cannot see a "judge" ruling otherwise.

The three opportunities for overruling a will are summarised here

http://www.elderfloweradvice.co.uk/news-and-events/78/

posttokev

Thanks John. That's a really good link.

daska

Presumably the argument is not that the notes in the file trump the wording of the Will but that the Will file shows that granny only intended the Will to stand if there was no reconciliation and, as there had been a reconciliation there it is likely that she knowingly destroyed the Will that disinherited her daughter. Which is why only a copy can be found - and why the solicitor has no record of the alleged call to their office to advise of it being stolen.

posttokev

daska wrote: »

Presumably the argument is not that the notes in the file trump the wording of the Will but that the Will file shows that granny only intended the Will to stand if there was no reconciliation and, as there had been a reconciliation there it is likely that she knowingly destroyed the Will that disinherited her daughter. Which is why only a copy can be found - and why the solicitor has no record of the alleged call to their office to advise of it being stolen.

That's it exactly. My mother's just off the phone with her solicitor who's said exactly the same and that we have a "51% chance of success or better." (I'm assuming this is good?)

We'll be thinking it over till tomorrow now as regards whether we proceed to the next step of filing a Defence. (Obviously there's still a cost risk to us so we need to weigh that up having finally got all the information we'd been requesting.)

NAR

posttokev wrote: »

That's it exactly. My mother's just off the phone with her solicitor who's said exactly the same and that we have a "51% chance of success or better." (I'm assuming this is good?)

It's only slightly better than 50:50. The decision you need to come to is - can you afford to lose the costs of the case?

Obviously you don't want them "to get away with it," that's a natural reaction. Good luck with weighing up your decision.

John_Pierpoint

My heart says, of course the daughter, who nursed her mother through her dotage, should inherit "her share".
My head says. this is a "!!!! shoot", you might as well toss a coin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craps (I do hate the net nanny)
So if it is heads, how much is your side of the family likely to win £..........
If you lose what will it cost? The Google link suggests at least £20,000.
The choice is yours.

That said, I recently had a conversation with a solicitor:
"I don't think I can help you with this - I have never succeeded in such a matter"
I managed to get some statistics, and the odds were not encouraging.
The solicitor was right, had I been paying him (say) £200 an hour, I would have chickened out.
But I battled on for months, thinking "you silly old fool did you really want to spend your retirement doing this?"
Eventually I had all the evidence possible, but I was still not sure I had enough proof (51% !?) and then other side "folded" and in rolled a big cheque.

There is a point where people get into a "I've started so I will finish" frame of mind as they have already made such a big investment in the outcome.

Do you bank with the co-op ? There is a chief executive writing off a huge investment in time and money. I wonder what the opportunity cost of that was?
http://news.sky.com/story/1082255/co-op-boss-not-quitting-retail-banking