Help and advice for the seriously confused

antonic

Have HMRC started recovery proceedings against you both yet (as individuals) for the unpaid tax ?.

If they have and the debt is big enough, they will make you each bankrupt and that will save both of you the bankruptcy fee each.

threegreedydogs

antonic wrote: »

Have HMRC started recovery proceedings against you both yet (as individuals) for the unpaid tax ?. No, we've been talking to them and they know the house is on the market - they are biding their time in the hope that we can pay in full if the house is sold.

If they have and the debt is big enough, they will make you each bankrupt and that will save both of you the bankruptcy fee each.

I'm not too worried about this specific debt - it's the totality of it that's the concern. That and the need to preserve an income as we're both self-employed and if I'm not free to work there is no income at all.

Mouse1812

In view of:

the risk to your self employment (partnership) - see my post above - and below
no desire to save your home, and
The likelihood of substantial IPAs in a bankruptcy

you should both consider making an agreement with your creditors. Individual Voluntary Agreements (IVAs) would be well worth discussing with someone.

These would allow the business to continue without any restriction.

ps to add - you could then get that consultancy into a limited liability company, where it belongs

Mouse1812

capeverde wrote: »

From what I read into it he is self employed in a partnership with his wife. The company isn't limited so why would it have to be closed down.

because

"Where bankruptcy orders are made against all the members of a partnership, the official receiver can apply, under Article 14 of the (IPO 1994), for an order that the partnership is wound up and the cases treated as if the partnership was wound up at the same time as the members were made bankrupt. That way, the official receiver can deal with the partnership property to the benefit of the creditors. "

capeverde

I would think in this case it wouldn't be of any interest to anyone to do that mouse, as there are no real assets. Its a husband and wife consultancy. How would it benefit anyone to take away his ability to earn a living? Even if they did, it would simply be a matter of opening another bank account and trading under mr & mrs threegreedydogs T/A XYZ services. Not exactly taxing excuse the pun. They could then even choose to take on less work for 12 months. Perhaps just enough to pay their bills.

Mouse1812

They would do it to collect the outstanding fees. Of course he can start again the next day, but by then the damage is done.

"simply be a matter of opening another bank account", if only it were that simple

capeverde

They wouldn't need to wind up a partnership to collect the fees, when any assets in the partnership are liquid though would they? Obviously if property was involved, or even machinery, I take your point, but if its just money in bank or outstanding invoices its a pointless exercise.

Opening accounts isn't really challenging. Worse case scenario is you do it in a family members name for a while. People buy off people and if his clients are happy with the service he offers, I don't see any reason why they would have a problem with him changing company names, or his personal financial situation.

Mouse1812

Yes they would

Where individual bankruptcy orders are made against all of the members of a partnership but no winding-up order is made against the partnership itself, the bankruptcy orders operate (in the absence of a partnership deed which provides otherwise) so as to dissolve the partnership but without bringing it under the control of the official receiver. Such a situation ties the official receiver’s hands, as he/she has no jurisdiction over any partnership assets and this can result in great difficulty in administering the case.

To resolve this difficulty the OR applies for a Article 14 order (see my post above)

So no, the OR can not simply deal with the debtors and bank

capeverde

I think you're reading from a manual there mouse and this would actually be quite rare and certainly not the norm in this situation. What would stop the partners declaring bankruptcy with a short time break in between the two? Also, you're scenario reads that an outside party initiates proceedings against mr & mrs threegreedydogs.

Personally speaking if it was my business, I would run things down for a month before declaring so there were no outstanding invoices and then welcome them to do with it as they wish, whilst I started work with my new company. Simples,

Mouse1812

The OR plays it by the book. I'll leave it for the OP and others to decide weather to trust the instructions given in the OR's internal technical manual or your guesses.