Can a Car insurer do this to us?

davidmaiden18183

Hi, my mum has AA car insurance, however it was due to expire and auto renew if she didn’t cancel. She missed the cancellation date but didn’t think the policy would have renewed anyway as the card details they said they would bill on the documentation was an expired card.

I checked quotes for her and for the same coverage I can get her insured for £158 with £50 cashback from quidco as well.

Think is she after the renewal date on my advice to confirm that she wasn’t going to renew. I was surprised they hadn’t been straight on the phone wanting new payment information. Turns out they contacted the bank and asked for them and then the bank gave them over!


Can an insurer (or anyone else in any other business) do this? Should a bank have provided them her details?


So she now has a policy she doesn’t want and insurer she is miffed with and can get cheaper elsewhere.

Quentin

If she is within 14 days of the renewal date then cancellation won't be a problem.

As far as the bank details are concerned, then you need to contact your bank and find out if everyone has acted correctly.

But as far as AA were concerned, your mum wanted to renew the policy, and they ensured it was and she wasn't driving without cover (with all that would entail)!

forgotmyname

If she already had cover on the day her old policy expired then she will be in a better position to claim a refund.

If she wasnt then the car would have been uninsured after the renewal.

Continuous payments can be taken long after a card expires or even gets cancelled. I doubt they contacted the bank to get the new information.

Have you tried calling a bank on someone elses behalf?

Dont forget if you cancel now there will be charges to pay. Within the 14 days it will be cheaper but may still be more than your potential saving.

Remember to shop around before policies renew.

And dont forget, Cancelling payments does not cancel the policy or rewals.
You need to contact them phone/letter and actually state you want to cancel.
Phone, record the call. Letter, send recorded delivery.

davidmaiden18183

Thanks. She has actually cancelled, yesterday the said they wouldn’t charger other than for the days used. However on cancelling today it seems they have taken £44 when the cover really costs like 75 p a day. They didn’t say there would be charging a cancellation fee. My mum didn’t realised they haven’t refunded as they said they would in the first call, until after the second call when she had cancelled it.

InsideInsurance

forgotmyname wrote: »

Continuous payments can be taken long after a card expires or even gets cancelled. I doubt they contacted the bank to get the new information.

They can do, and in fact are supposed to these days, but the Card Updater Service has an exceptionally low rate of use still.

It is an automated process where they give the card number to the bank and ask if it is still valid prior to doing the payment. There are three possible responses:

1) Yes
2) No, heres the new one
3) No, heres the reason code

If the second option comes back they are supposed to use the new card number. If the third option comes back they are not supposed to process a payment at all.

The reasons for option 3 can be closed accounts, customer request, fraud concerns etc

The idea of the card updater service was to help the mechanism of cancelling CPAs etc and therefore make it a bit more like DDs. The problem was that the implementation has been terribly bad, for example you send a file of 1,000 card numbers and you simply get back a list of 1,000 codes and card numbers only for those with an option 2.

There was at least one company where errors were made by the system and it resent a previous file back a second time and with no unique IDs or anything else you can imagine the mess it made. How it avoided the press I don't know.


To the OP - yes they can renew it, its what they said they would do. You can cancel it in the cooling off period (14 days after renewal) but there will almost certainly be cancellation fees and time on cover to be paid for.

somethingcorporate

The cancellation charges will be set out in the terms of the contract. They don't need to tell her when they are cancelling as they have already told her in black and white that she has agreed to.

davidmaiden18183

somethingcorporate wrote: »

The cancellation charges will be set out in the terms of the contract. They don't need to tell her when they are cancelling as they have already told her in black and white that she has agreed to.

I understand that. Feel a bit of a stretch to say agreed to though when they renewed it but I accept that they seem to have had right to do so even if they had to get the new card details from the bank - it has just expired, no other reason

UsernameAlreadyExists

InsideInsurance wrote: »

The idea of the card updater service was to help the mechanism of cancelling CPAs etc and therefore make it a bit more like DDs. The problem was that the implementation has been terribly bad, for example you send a file of 1,000 card numbers and you simply get back a list of 1,000 codes and card numbers only for those with an option 2.

+1 for the knowledgeable post.
-1 for saying the system is bad!

The system works if you use it properly. If the client side implementation is sloppy and poorly managed then of course mistakes can happen.

It's complicated by PCI DSS in-so-far as accessing the card number is very deliberately supposed to be troublesome. If there's a badly written implementation that updates a card number with whatever is in the response file (which appears to be fallen foul of - because it's missing!) ... then that's your problem. Also, if you're processing a response file a second time ... again, your problem!

LOL at insurance companies cocking it up


ON Topic - you should have cancelled when you were supposed to

InsideInsurance

UsernameAlreadyExists wrote: »

It's complicated by PCI DSS in-so-far as accessing the card number is very deliberately supposed to be troublesome. If there's a badly written implementation that updates a card number with whatever is in the response file (which appears to be fallen foul of - because it's missing!) ... then that's your problem. Also, if you're processing a response file a second time ... again, your problem!

The acquiring bank made a mistake and rather than providing the correct response file resent one from a week or so previously. It was unfortunate that in both cases there was the same number of rows which was the only check that was possible to do.

I will accept it may possible be a case that the acquiring banks system was bad rather than card associations one and I have only had exposure to it once so other acquiring banks may have a better implementation.

Any system where the only check you can do is a row count is poor and when it comes to something as sensitive as private credit card numbers it is fairly unacceptable.

somethingcorporate

davidmaiden18183 wrote: »

I understand that. Feel a bit of a stretch to say agreed to though when they renewed it but I accept that they seem to have had right to do so even if they had to get the new card details from the bank - it has just expired, no other reason

That may not be the case, CPAs won't require the new details - the bank will honour it as has been agreed to by all parties.

(I am no expert in these things though).

forgotmyname

davidmaiden18183 wrote: »

Thanks. She has actually cancelled, yesterday the said they wouldn’t charger other than for the days used. However on cancelling today it seems they have taken £44 when the cover really costs like 75 p a day. They didn’t say there would be charging a cancellation fee. My mum didn’t realised they haven’t refunded as they said they would in the first call, until after the second call when she had cancelled it.

The new rate maybe the short term insurance cover rate.


Helps prevent people taking out the insurance and getting away with 14 days free cover. Or using the policy to move an unsured car when they had no intention of taking out a policy anyway.

Or on the other hand it could be just to line the insurers pockets.
Remember the bank advert.

Whats this charger for... Its for the bubbly at the shareholders meeting.