Oldies, their kids,and long term care

EdInvestor

From Citywire

Symponia, the alliance of providers and advisers specialising in long-term care planning, has warned advisers that they face increased liability following forthcoming revisions to the Mental Capacity Act in 2008.The changes deem that vulnerable adults such as the elderly and infirm should be treated as though they have the mental capacity to do something unless otherwise proven.

This means that from autumn next year advisers could be liable if they suggest an elderly customer consult a family member before making an investment decision.If the elderly customer loses money as a result of a family member’s recommendations, the adviser will be found to be ultimately responsible for that decision.

This could impact quite strongly on the sale of products like equity release and immediate needs annuities. It's often clear that heirs are quite happy to gamble on the old person dying soon after going into care, so that rather than using some of his/her money to buy the annuity, thus guaranteeing the care level for life, they decide to self fund, thus putting the oldie at risk of outliving the capital and ending up dependent on the council and in grossly inferior conditions.

Heirs rarely like the idea of equity release either, though it is often the best (or only) way to make later years comfortable.

margaretclare

When we did equity release in 2003 there was a check-list with tick-boxes which our conveyancing solicitor was required to go through with us. One of the questions was 'Do you understand that there may be an impact on any means-tested benefits?' - well, that didn't worry us, as we're unlikely ever to have a low enough income to claim these type of benefits.

The solicitor said 'It's down here, I have to ask you'.

Another question was 'Have you discussed this with your family?' Well, we had. And as the quote from Citywire says, this was in line with what our closest family said. 'It's your house, it's your money, do what you think is best'. His son and daughter, and my daughter, were not the slightest bit interested. They know we're well capable of making choices and decisions on our own behalf, they have enough to think about in their own lives without concerning themselves with our doings, and that was what we told the conveyancing solicitor. He ticked the box.

Ed says 'Heirs rarely like the idea of equity release either'....Well, our 'heirs', the 5 grandchildren, don't even know about it, they don't know that they're our heirs and they won't be told until the relevant time i.e. when the second of us turns his/her toes up.

I feel it's a great mistake for older people to tell family members that they'll get something in a will. How often do we read posts on here from people who're making important decisions on the basis of an 'inheritance' which is certain to come? I've heard of people who won't join an employer's pension scheme, even though it's 'free money', because they're certain to inherit mother's house or whatever it might be. It distorts values, wouldn't you say?

Margaret

Errata

Ed, interesting quote and I must confess I hadn't looked at the MC act from that perspective. Would a solution be the recommendation that the person seeks independant finanacial advice?

margaretclare

I know that DH and I are in the age-group classified as 'elderly', but I had not realised that we are also considered to be 'vulnerable adults'.

How can we convince the authorities, those that make these sweeping generalisations, that we have all our marbles?

Margaret

Errata

You can't - they've been convinced by the amount of abuse older people experience. See abuse websites, and Harold Shipman enquiry !

margaretclare

Errata wrote: »

You can't - they've been convinced by the amount of abuse older people experience. See abuse websites, and Harold Shipman enquiry !

We are hardly in the category of people whom Harold Shipman targeted. Nor do we have anyone around likely to 'abuse' us. (I'd like to see anyone try!!)

Margaret

EdInvestor

Attitudes to oldies are likely to change over the next few years as the babyboomers are now starting to retire.Noteably babyboomers are not accustomed to being pushed around.

The upcoming generation of pensioners are also much better off than the earlier groups.Poverty and vulnerability tend to go together.

margaretclare

EdInvestor wrote: »

Attitudes to oldies are likely to change over the next few years as the babyboomers are now starting to retire.Noteably babyboomers are not accustomed to being pushed around.

The upcoming generation of pensioners are also much better off than the earlier groups.Poverty and vulnerability tend to go together.

DH and I are in the generation that preceded the baby-boomers - we were born in the mid-1930s.

I think we must have been way ahead of our time, because neither of us has EVER been accustomed to being pushed around! DH's dad arranged for him to be articled to an accountant on leaving school, had made all the arrangements without telling him. DH said 'No chance, I want to be a mechanical engineer' and he went off and made his own arrangement to be taken on as an apprentice with a local company.

Me, I walked out on my first marriage in 1957 after a few weeks - reason, I didn't like living with in-laws in a small bungalow. But that was what a lot of young couples were forced to do! Not for me. I went and found myself a new career in nursing.

Also DH and I are not poor. I didn't fall into the trap of paying the 'married women's reduced NI contribution' so I have a full state pension in my own right, plus annuities. We're not rich but we have enough to live comfortably, we don't spend all our income and we can choose to do nice things when the opportunity arises.

Margaret