Houseshare, how to split the bills?

Chris842

My girlfriend also said I should pay nothing yet, since I'm at risk of being thrown out? But I'd have thought the landlord could say "Pay up or I'll throw you out". Can anyone offer advice on this situation please?

Fire_Fox

Chris842 wrote: »

About the bills... we are going to have to all get together (including my girlfriend because I want her there, I said) and talk it out.

As for the oven... I came today, with food I'd just bought that needed the oven, and it wouldn't turn on. I knocked on the guy's room, asked how to get it on, he refused to tell me! At this I lost my temper, there was a very heated argument and I'm still shook up from it now.

I went back down and he followed. I figured it out. There's an on/off switch we never use because its always on. He had turned it off and hidden it with duct tape. He's then threatening, between him and the landlord, to have the contract rewritten without my name on it and have me thrown out of the house. I'm going to get on the phone to my landlord tomorrow to give my side of the story, and complain about him for trying to stop me using the oven.

My girlfriend got onto the Citizens Advice Bureau website for me and she said the landlord can indeed rewrite the contract without me if he wants to! Which doesn't seem fair to me. Would I lose my deposit too?

Chris842 wrote: »

My girlfriend also said I should pay nothing yet, since I'm at risk of being thrown out? But I'd have thought the landlord could say "Pay up or I'll throw you out". Can anyone offer advice on this situation please?

You are not being at all clear, EXACTLY what do you mean the landlord is threatening you? What are you being accused of? How is this being communicated to you, has the landlord phoned you, emailed or turned up in person? Am I to understand you are on a joint tenancy, one contract for the entire house? Or are individual rooms let to individual tenants?

Arguments between housemates are not the concern of the landlord, they are not your mum your secondary school teacher nor your football ref. Don't give your side of the story, behave like an adult even if those around you are not. It is likely none of the landlord's business how the bills are split or even if they are paid at all.

I seriously cannot see the point in arguing with anyone, nor with setting up a confrontational situation that will blatantly end in another massive row for the sake of a tenner. You will not win, your girlfriend is not a resident she doesn't have a vote, all you will end up with is the other housemates trying to prevent her visiting or ruining your weekends.

It's irrelevant you are right, this person is clearly a bit strange and the other housemates are on their side. I think you not seeing the wood for the trees, stuck on the injustice of a few quid and forgetting that there are people who can make your life hell for the next couple of months.

Chris842

It wasn't very clear to me either, there was just a lot of shouting. He said I can't use the oven until I'd paid all of the electric which isn't even due til Sunday, and the bill was only just posted up! If I don't, he said the landlord is going to rewrite the contract without my name, thus I get thrown out of the house. He said he had already spoken to him on the phone.

On sunday, I had a text from the landlord, saying there was a complaint against me and that I have to either cut down on my girlfriend's visits, or she has to contribute towards the bills. He had been told it was every weekend but its actually once every two weekends. Landlord said the same complaint had been made against another house by the same 'complainer'.

Fire_Fox

Chris842 wrote: »

It wasn't very clear to me either, there was just a lot of shouting. He said I can't use the oven until I'd paid all of the electric which isn't even due til Sunday, and the bill was only just posted up! If I don't, he said the landlord is going to rewrite the contract without my name, thus I get thrown out of the house. He said he had already spoken to him on the phone.

On sunday, I had a text from the landlord, saying there was a complaint against me and that I have to either cut down on my girlfriend's visits, or she has to contribute towards the bills. He had been told it was every weekend but its actually once every two weekends. Landlord said the same complaint had been made against another house by the same 'complainer'.

Assuming you are on a joint AST the bills are none of the landlord's business and IMO he is being unprofessional texting you. Landlord cannot kick you out in the fixed term unless there are serious breaches of the tenancy agreement, and even then he'd have to serve formal notice (section 8 if you are being 'accused' of serious breaches, this must be enforced in court it's just a notice of intent) and AFAIK this notice would apply to the whole household, since on a joint tenancy you are legally one tenant not five/six. This would normally be used if tenants don't pay the rent for months or are causing problems with neighbours involving the police or noise involving Environmental Health. Basically I'd eat a Christmas cracker hat if it goes this far unless you are silly and end up assaulting your housemate. http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/section-8-notice.htm

Girlfriend's visits ... it's *possible* a reduction could be enforced since the house is likely registered as a House in Multiple Occupancy, you might want to check with the local council how many are permitted to live there and how they see four days a fortnight. It really is serious for the landlord to breach this legislation so if he plays this card you MUST comply.
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/renting_and_leasehold/sharing_and_subletting/houses_in_multiple_occupation

Honestly I think you should just not get drawn into the peurile behaviour of your housemate: IF your landlord does get involved politely ask him to detail the issues in writing, explaining what clauses in the AST or what legislation are being breached. If he has any sense he will back off, intimating he would kick you out for no sound legal reason would be deemed harassment. Even quite subtle stuff can be harassment, keep every text or better still use e-mail or snail mail so you have a record. Try to avoid using the telephone, you can't prove what is said.
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/harassment.htm
http://england.shelter.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/23382/Harassment20and20antisocial20behaviour20EW2202D20harassment20and20illegal20eviction.pdf

Do check this with the 'House Buying Renting and Selling' board, there are a number of professional and knowledgeable landlords there - G_M, theartfullodger and so on. Feel free to link to or quote my post if you feel that would help.

Chris842

Thanks Fire Fox, I appreciate it! Because I'm sure it took you some time to type that and find the links. And its really useful info

macman

As above, it's nothing to do with the landlord how the bills are divided up. Tell him to mind his own business. You are presumably giving your notice anyway in the next couple of weeks, so why get involve in this childish dispute?
It doesn't sound like any of this household are old enough to be living away from home.

Wywth

See the responses given in your other thread here:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4478467

Or the one from 6 weeks ago asking a similar question here:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4394397

Chris842

Wywth wrote: »

See the responses given in your other thread here:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4478467

Or the one from 6 weeks ago asking a similar question here:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4394397

I made the original post on here and also the other because I wasn't sure which was the right place, and figured one of them would be deleted. The one from 6 weeks ago was before the latest developments.

Chris842

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Assuming you are on a joint AST the bills are none of the landlord's business and IMO he is being unprofessional texting you. Landlord cannot kick you out in the fixed term unless there are serious breaches of the tenancy agreement, and even then he'd have to serve formal notice (section 8 if you are being 'accused' of serious breaches, this must be enforced in court it's just a notice of intent) and AFAIK this notice would apply to the whole household, since on a joint tenancy you are legally one tenant not five/six. This would normally be used if tenants don't pay the rent for months or are causing problems with neighbours involving the police or noise involving Environmental Health. Basically I'd eat a Christmas cracker hat if it goes this far unless you are silly and end up assaulting your housemate. http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/section-8-notice.htm

Girlfriend's visits ... it's *possible* a reduction could be enforced since the house is likely registered as a House in Multiple Occupancy, you might want to check with the local council how many are permitted to live there and how they see four days a fortnight. It really is serious for the landlord to breach this legislation so if he plays this card you MUST comply.
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/renting_and_leasehold/sharing_and_subletting/houses_in_multiple_occupation

Honestly I think you should just not get drawn into the peurile behaviour of your housemate: IF your landlord does get involved politely ask him to detail the issues in writing, explaining what clauses in the AST or what legislation are being breached. If he has any sense he will back off, intimating he would kick you out for no sound legal reason would be deemed harassment. Even quite subtle stuff can be harassment, keep every text or better still use e-mail or snail mail so you have a record. Try to avoid using the telephone, you can't prove what is said.
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/harassment.htm
http://england.shelter.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/23382/Harassment20and20antisocial20behaviour20EW2202D20harassment20and20illegal20eviction.pdf

Do check this with the 'House Buying Renting and Selling' board, there are a number of professional and knowledgeable landlords there - G_M, theartfullodger and so on. Feel free to link to or quote my post if you feel that would help.

I just spoke to my landlord on the phone (I know, but I figured if it went bad, then I'd send a text so I'd have some evidence). I said I wanted to make a complaint about my housemate stopping me using the oven. He said he didnt want to get involved - I said I understood the bills are nothing to do with you and you dont want to get involved in that, but this is about the oven. I'm being denied access to the facilities, and he didnt care! Then he sided with the others and said "I suggest that if you want to pay the oven, you pay the extra £20 they are asking for". (because I think I should pay £85 and they want me to pay £105).

As my housemate had threatened to kick me out, I asked the landlord about this. He said that if all of the other housemates wanted to, they could evict me. And that if don't pay the extra, I'll be getting 30 days notice to move out.

Can I fight this? And if I was given my notice, would I lose my deposit?

Idiophreak

This is advice that I can give, but strangely could never take myself: Just pay the £20. Life's too short.