Subsidence Compensation from Council?

spearos

Hi everyone!

First post on here, I’m looking for some advice regarding damage to my house caused by trees on council land.

Some background:

My wife and I bought our first house a little over 3 years ago - a 2 bed terraced house which has no front garden, you step straight onto a pathway. This pathway is approximately 2 meters wide and on the other side there were several trees between 8m and 14m high.

During summer 2011 a crack appeared running from the top corner of our porch door diagonally downwards along the party wall. After ‘consulting’ Google it appeared that all the signs pointed towards subsidence – diagonal crack, house is on clay soil, we had been in a drought and of course the trees in close proximity.
At this point I notified our insurance company who sent a structural engineer to inspect. He was sure that the damage was caused by subsidence so the insurance company arranged soil analysis to be carried out as well as an Arborist report.
The results must have been conclusive as the council cut down the trees and after a period of monitoring our property it was deemed that the ground had recovered and had stabilised, so repairs were carried out and I paid our insurance excess of £1000.

Now, as this has caused a great deal of stress and taken a considerable amount of our time, as well as the fact it has so far cost us £1000 (there will, no doubt be increases in our insurance premium and any possible effects on the value of our house), I feel that because this was all caused by trees owned by the council, they should be held accountable.
So, would really appreciate any advice as to whether we ‘have a case’ here to seek any compensation etc? And if so what would be our first step?

I have tried to supply all the details, whilst not waffling on too much! But should there be anything else I need to mention please ask.

Cheers,
Mark

jellie

Not only will your insurance costs probably rise, you will find it very difficult, if not impossible, to get cover with any other company. So you'll be stuck with your existing insurers for the foreseeable future I'm afraid.

What did the survey you had done before you bought the property say about the potential damage these trees could cause?

Have others in the terrace been affected?

Do you have a copy of the structural engineer's report confirming the council's trees have caused your subsidence?

dacouch

To be able to claim you will need to prove the council were negligent, just because the trees caused subsidence does not mean they were negligent.

Your home insurance will normally provide free legal advice, look the number up in your policy and give them a call

System

I think you will have a very hard time trying to prove the council were negligent here, especially after they acted on the problem once it was raised

sjoh0961

Hi All.

I apologise if this is considered thread-hijacking, but I would like to know where I stand on a similar issue.

Next door has a tree, probably 3m from one corner of my house. It has caused a concrete path in my garden to crack (not bothered), but I'm concerned it could get big enough to cause a subsidence problem. Is it likely that I can call the council (next door is a council house, as was mine, once) and ask them to cut it down before it causes subsidence?

Any ideas on the process to follow would be gratefully received.

Thanks,

Tim

dacouch

the_r_sole wrote: »

I think you will have a very hard time trying to prove the council were negligent here, especially after they acted on the problem once it was raised

There's a small chance they may be held fully or partially if they do not have a maintenance / checking system in place especially if it's not documented / robust

dacouch

sjoh0961 wrote: »

Hi All.

I apologise if this is considered thread-hijacking, but I would like to know where I stand on a similar issue.

Next door has a tree, probably 3m from one corner of my house. It has caused a concrete path in my garden to crack (not bothered), but I'm concerned it could get big enough to cause a subsidence problem. Is it likely that I can call the council (next door is a council house, as was mine, once) and ask them to cut it down before it causes subsidence?

Any ideas on the process to follow would be gratefully received.

Thanks,

Tim

What sort of tree is it eg Oak or Willow etc?

Yes you can speak to the council, they may not need to cut it down, it can often be corrected by crowning or pruning the tree as this can reduce root growth.

mart.vader

sjoh0961 wrote: »

Hi All.

I apologise if this is considered thread-hijacking, but I would like to know where I stand on a similar issue.

Next door has a tree, probably 3m from one corner of my house. It has caused a concrete path in my garden to crack (not bothered), but I'm concerned it could get big enough to cause a subsidence problem. Is it likely that I can call the council (next door is a council house, as was mine, once) and ask them to cut it down before it causes subsidence?

Any ideas on the process to follow would be gratefully received.

Thanks,

Tim

Next door to my sister, there is a short row of trees, four in all, I think Leylandii, definitely some kind of conifer, about 25 feet tall. The closest one is about 1.5m from the corner of the house.
They have caused substantial cracking to the house, inside and out, which has been rectified by the insurance co. I'd estimate about £15,000 of work. The roots also broke the water supply pipe, causing a leak. Lucky my sister had an "all risks" policy.

The insurance co have written to the neighbour to say that his trees caused this damage. He is not in the slightest bit concerned. The tree roots continue to break up my sister's concrete path.

The council in that area, Enfield, will only take on a complaint about trees, if you pay them, I think, £350 up front, and they don't guarantee they will have any success.

vaio

if the neighbour, despite being aware of the damage his trees are doing, still does nothing to resolve the issue then he is firmly in the negligence area and court is where you want to be rather than complaining to the council

spearos

jellie wrote: »

Not only will your insurance costs probably rise, you will find it very difficult, if not impossible, to get cover with any other company. So you'll be stuck with your existing insurers for the foreseeable future I'm afraid.

What did the survey you had done before you bought the property say about the potential damage these trees could cause?

Have others in the terrace been affected?

Do you have a copy of the structural engineer's report confirming the council's trees have caused your subsidence?

Thanks for your reply Jellie.

When we purchased the house I believe we had a home buyers report carried out and correct me if I'm wrong this doesn't take local trees/vegetation into consideration?

The engineers report states the following:

"The diagonal aspect of the cracks, together with the fact that they increase in width with height is indicative of subsidence as a result of shrinkage of the clay subsoil due to the moisture extracting influence of the nearby local authority trees to the front of the house. The trees to the front of the house are most likely to have been planted when the properties were built in the late 1980's. These trees have continued to grow and have not been maintained, as such, their root systems have extended and their water demand increased. Broadleaf trees have a high water demand and the action of their roots extracting the moisture from the clay has caused the clay below the foundations to shrink. This in turn has allowed the structure to drop slightly which has caused the cracking we can see in the lounge and bedroom."

In the Aborist report the following is stated:

"This report is based upon our understanding at the time of visiting the property that Infront Innovation engineers are satisfied that damage is due to clay shrinkage subsidence exacerbated by vegetation.
Based on our site investigations, and taking account of vegetation location, relative to the focal area of movement/ damage, it is our opinion that T2 (Acer) will be exerting a contributory influence. This is based on the trees size and location relative to the area of damage.
Based on the same criteria it is also our opinion that T1 (Ash) will be exerting the principal vegetative influence. This influence is determined by size, known species characteristics and proximity relative to the area of damage; it's our opinion that this tree will, on the balance of probability, be extending roots in proximity to the focal area of movement. This tree is larger than T2 and as a result we believe it will be the main cause of the damage.
A number of additional trees are present and we would advise the Council to implement a program of proactive tree management to limit the risk of any further damage occurring. During our visit an immediate neighbour advised that their property is also the subject of a similar claim."

We are in a terrace of 4 houses, with 3 suffering subsidence issues due to clay shrinkage. One neighbour had it worse than us with similar cracking internally and some external damage. The other neighbour only had some minor damage.
The neighbour with the more significant damage obviously went through her insurance, because it was pointless her insurers and my insurers both doing their own investigations mine obtined the Aborists report and her insurers did the soil analysis. I will speak to her and see if she has the findings of this documented.

keystone

Strange that the arborist failed to mention the heave that will occur now that the trees are gone and not extracting the water out of the clay subsoil that they previously did. Heave has the capability to do far more damage.

Clay shrinks in a drought and ALL houses built on clay suffer a degree of settlement in those conditions trees or no trees. If there is no water anyway then the tree has nothing to suck out.

Just sayin'

Cheers