Mental Heath and Evection

terra_ferma

Hi Margaret, from memory a licence can only be given under specific circumstances, and even in those cases there are plenty of grey areas. Is she living in some kind of supported accommodation? Even if this is the case a licence may not be the right tenancy that she should have been given.
Housing Associations cannot just use licences because they make it easier for them to evict people.

If a licence has been incorrectly given, your daughter will be treated as having a full tenancy and will have stronger rights.
My knowledge is not up to speed, these are just pointers for you to research.
Shelter is the right place to go for advice.

SEE

MargaretT wrote: »

What is the situation where a person has damaged rented accommodation (private housing trust) while suffering a breakdown and as a result has been sectioned under the UK Mental Health Act? An inspection of the house might indicate that the person in unable to look after themselves and this is one of the main rules of the housing trust ie the person must be able to look after themselves

Can they be evicted from their home because of the damage they caused while suffering the breakdown? I'm assuming it can't be regarded as criminal damage if the person was so unwell. And I would like to think that now they are getting a health package that the looking after themselves rule would be taken care of.

What grounds does the sectioned individual have for appealing such an eviction (are they regarded as having the facility to defend themselves if they are still sectioned) and can they actually be told while they are under section that they are loosing their rented accommodation, or must the private housing trust go though an appointed social worker and/or advocate.

Need some quick advice on this I've just receuved the news but as yet my grand-daughter has not been told, it's the first time she has been sectioned and we don't really understand what is happening.

Margaret

Is assisted living within their care package? If it is, there is no reason the assisted living cannot take place in the persons rented accommodation.

Have the doctors stated that she has capacity?

What section is she under?

MargaretT

I appreciate what IDK said regarding the licence. In this case I think it is pretty solid. As I mentioned above the houses are owned by a charity formed during the industria revolution, or about that time, and that was the bases on which it has operated ever since.

We are going to have to wait and see what kind of package the local health authority give her. I quite agree that care in the community will be the proper way to go and that can be delivered at her current address.

There are a whole range of people living in the community: some need help, some don't; some are working, some or not; some or old, some not; there are some singles and a few families. It is definately not a place designed specifically for those who need support in the community.

My greatest fear is the caretaker, from what I gather my GD frightened the life out of her and I'm beginning to think that she has threatened the charity that own the houses it is either 'that mad one,' or me!

I contacted a local solicitor today and asked him to contact my GD in hospital at least that way I know she'll be receiving some professional back up.

terra_ferma

MargaretT wrote: »

I appreciate what IDK said regarding the licence. In this case I think it is pretty solid. As I mentioned above the houses are owned by a charity formed during the industria revolution, or about that time, and that was the bases on which it has operated ever since.

I don't think what you say is enough to justify giving licences, they may well have other reasons that make it perfectly legal, but being an established charity is not one of them. It doesn't depend on the type of landlord, but on the type of property.
Is it a HMO, house in multiple occupation? (people sharing a house, renting a room with some shared facilities as opposed to a flat).
Is she under 18 (I've seen licences used with under 18 yo, although a grey are as well, it wasn't clear if they were legal).

The solicitor will want to see the licence agreement and will be able to advise, I expect.

Savvy_Sue

MargaretT wrote: »

My greatest fear is the caretaker, from what I gather my GD frightened the life out of her and I'm beginning to think that she has threatened the charity that own the houses it is either 'that mad one,' or me!

It is difficult, because employers have a responsibility to protect staff from violence and the threat of violence. It may be worth your GD writing to apologise, but I'd take advice from the solicitor / advocate about that.

MargaretT

Yes, never thought of the employers responsibility to employee. I conceed that might be an issue

MargaretT

Just to give an update.

I contacted a local solicitor at the beginning of the week, he's to travel down to speak to GD sometime this week. As of yesterday (Wednesday) he hadn't arrived.

At the moment there is no talk about a care package. My GD is a manic-depressive and onced stablized should be able to live in community. As I said at the top this is the first time she has ever been sectioned.

Deal_Chaser

Hi

Have you actually spoken to the landlord? You said no eviction been served etc so how do you know what is their intention and also you need to clarify your Gds actually tenancy position and her responsibilities & landlords Conditions of Tenancy.

You need to discuss this with landlord as I could be wrong but you are making assumptions without being armed with the full facts if it is some supported housing charity/project they might be acustomised to this sort of scenario???

You need to make them aware as they will need info re GD etc could be some HB implications? How long is sectioning sorry if missed this and also will she be able to cope as prior before breakdown or will she need more intensive care?

Speak to the Housing People asap so at least then you can fully brief your solicitor or legal representative.... it could make the process a whole lot smoother esp in respect of the actual form of tenancy...

It maybe a case that the damage will be rechargeable and that providing some sort of reasonable repayment plan drawn up and that proper care package implemented that might resolve their concerns??

Hope this helps

Savvy_Sue

Deal_Chaser wrote: »

Have you actually spoken to the landlord? You said no eviction been served etc so how do you know what is their intention and also you need to clarify your Gds actually tenancy position and her responsibilities & landlords Conditions of Tenancy.

You need to discuss this with landlord as I could be wrong but you are making assumptions without being armed with the full facts if it is some supported housing charity/project they might be acustomised to this sort of scenario???

You need to make them aware as they will need info re GD etc could be some HB implications? How long is sectioning sorry if missed this and also will she be able to cope as prior before breakdown or will she need more intensive care?

Speak to the Housing People asap so at least then you can fully brief your solicitor or legal representative.... it could make the process a whole lot smoother esp in respect of the actual form of tenancy...

It maybe a case that the damage will be rechargeable and that providing some sort of reasonable repayment plan drawn up and that proper care package implemented that might resolve their concerns??

While that's very sound advice, the OP needs to be aware that the landlord may be unable to discuss anything with her because of Data Protection issues, UNLESS the tenant gives permission for this. That should be a fairly straightforward thing to do: some social landlords will have a form which the tenant can sign to say who can be spoken to, eg doctor, named relatives, social worker if there is one etc. It would make a lot of sense if SOMEONE could liaise with landlord, but equally it may be best to limit this to one person rather than several, IYSWIM.

Richie-from-the-Boro

MargaretT wrote: »

My greatest fear is the caretaker, from what I gather my GD frightened the life out of her and I'm beginning to think that she has threatened the charity that own the houses it is either 'that mad one,' or me!

I contacted a local solicitor today and asked him to contact my GD in hospital at least that way I know she'll be receiving some professional back up.

MargaretT,

Have you read what you have written ? There are many people other than your kin who have rights, they, other ill people and staff, whom I assume are not creating the problem are subject to the results of your kin's breakdown. The fundamental question is whether or not your grand-daughter is even in the right kind of care for her current needs. Many housing associations and smaller voluntary owned residential care private operators provide 'care home facilities' without and without a nursing element. In this case from your description it sounds like a care home run for non-profit, typically owned by charities, associations, societies, trusts etc. These in-community dwellings cope adequately well with autism, bipolar, down syndrome, epilepsy etc.

A lot of energy, time and money has been spent on defending a tenancy, with no mention of seeking better treatment or more suited~to~needs accommodation. Clearly it is the case that for whatever reason your kin was unable to cope with 'life' in this type of unsupported environment. The caretaker's role in this case [lease dependant] is the s/he who has a set of written 'governance rules' from the employer, additionally they have their ear 'bent' by other residents raising grievances and who who says :

- no to drink
- no to drugs
- no to smoking
- no to loud music
- no to coming in late
- no to ill chosen quests
- etc

You should make an effort to speak to the LA, her MH team etc and find out what her financial and treatment status is, and how treatment can be improved. Clearly there is a need for a care package in the current circumstances whether or not she returns to the same accommodation. Care of your kin sometimes requires that family members ask hard and difficult to cope with truths about what kind of care is needed for their kin rather than defending the status quo that resulted in being sectioned in the first place.

Best of luck MargaretT.