An awful warning about first utility

jalexa

scottishpower_company_representative wrote: »

I'm sorry jalexa but if we were the registered supplier we would arrange an isolator to be installed. We would not ask the DNO to do it.

OK. So who would you make the arrangement with? Who would pull the fuse?

What do you think of the Scottish Power (DNO?) representative on-site apparently being unable to articulate that?

Did you ask for my previous post to be pulled?

Ich_2

It actually raises an interesting point, was it Scottish Power Energy Retail the supplier that attended or Scottish Power Energy Networks (the DNO) that attended?
If the former they were the wrong folk and you need the DNO. (I would ignore the SP reps comment as the isolator could be the DNO's)

chanz4

The mops, dno all can change isolators as can an electrician, believe it or not the isolators are normaly installed if on a job they cant do a dead test. So these are installed as technically its not a disconnection.

orcadian

I don't know if SPER or SPEN (the DNO) attended yesterday since FU simply spoke of "Scottish Power". The number they gave me was 0845-272-7999. The SP job ref. was 43720-R.
No vulnerable family should go days without electricity supply while big corporations argue who is responsible. Confusion on this forum about who is responsible confirms that emergency utility callouts in the UK are hugely confusing for consumers and utility firms. In an emergency situation this is completely unacceptable. My wife and I this morning were discussing moving with our children into our local church over the weekend, but that couldn't be ideal (the church will be in use of course! - and no showers). All down to confusion while big corporations treated our family like a football.
This morning I phoned another competent electrician for an emergency call out at my expense. Chanz4 and Jalexa would not have fared any better than I did but it's easy to criticise when your house has not been cut off from electricity, hot water and heating in Winter. It's very hard to stay sane under these circumstances. My freezer has defrosted, from my diarrhoea I am sure I have norovirus, my daughter has been coughing terribly. A competent electrician from CORGI home plan had already come TWICE yesterday. The new electrician today confirmed that no work could proceed without the utility company. He left me with an NICEIC report stating he cannot reconnect the supply and Scottish Power must attend to supply and install BS1361 cut out and earth. It's very easy to say that a utility company "should come". Much harder to make them come and do the work. Even he didn't refer to the difference between SPER and SPEN, which is a corporate organisational issue which I wouldn't have known if I hadn't read this forum.
At the same time first thing I contacted my MP who contacted a press agency concerning our plight - they contacted public relations at FU. This made a huge difference. The MP's assistant kept in phone contact with me during the day, FU service delivery manager then contacted me in person and gave me his own mobile number and told me he had called Scottish Power, booked them to visit our home himself, and wanted to talk to them while they were on site. Scottish Power sent not just their engineer but his manager to my house. I showed him the NICEIC report and phoned my call-out electrician's manager and gave the handset to the SP engineer to ensure he understood the issue of what was needed to reconnect our supply, as this didn't happen yesterday with SP. SP installed a cut out (although not the earth) and reconnected the supply to the house. The public relations manager from FU also phoned me and checked on the progress of work. The PR manager stated FU will recall SP next week to arrange for the earth to be installed. I hope this happens.
So I had to go to extreme lengths to get what should be routine emergency work done and get the lights and heating back on. We could have had our supply reconnected 24 hours earlier when SP previously attended. I am pleased the lights are back on. I thought we would be moving with our 3 kids to emergency accommodation tonight. Now we can stay in our house. I have to thank my MP's assistant for contacting a press agency which got everything in motion and the service delivery manager at FU for chasing up SP today and speaking to them while they were on site. Also I thank the public relations advisor at FU who has been very keen to see this matter is resolved. Shame this wasn't sorted out yesterday when I called first called FU as an emergency after CORGI home plan attended, and FU gave me the SP phone number to call myself and SP engineers first attended the property. It would have been a lot better for all of us. The UK really needs a better solution for utility customers with legal safeguards sorting out the confusion over who is responsible for emergency repairs.

chanz4

Why did you need a cut out change, was it the old type

macman

Why have they left you with an unearthed supply?!

orcadian

There was no visible cut-out anywhere on the property. Both qualified electricians who were called out were unable to carry out any work on the system without isolating the supply. In future this will not be the case.
I share your concerns that Scottish Power left without ensuring the supply to my property was earthed. They stated this was not their remit. The independent electrician who visited earlier stated that it was SP's remit to ensure the mains supply is earthed and I told them that and showed them the NICEIC form he left which states "further urgent action recommended: Scottish Power to supply and install BS1361 cutout and earth". I'm concerned that this position is taken by a national power company with major responsibility for customer safety.
SP did not provide me with a written report on either occasion. Their first visit on 28 February I asked for a written report giving reasons why no work was carried out and it was not provided. This also seems unprofessional and not the standard expected from a major utility.
I would like to thank my MP Sheila Gilmore for help from her and her assistant David Raine in reconnecting our supply yesterday. I'm going to be taking up all these points with them. I am pointing them to this forum which is a very valuable resource: it includes comments and advice in real time from a variety of well informed people including an SP representative. The confusion demonstrated about who is responsible for such essential emergency repairs is remarkable and shows there is an urgent need to protect consumers.

Ich_2

I share your concerns that Scottish Power left without ensuring the supply to my property was earthed. They stated this was not their remit. The independent electrician who visited earlier stated that it was SP's remit to ensure the mains supply is earthed and I told them that and showed them the NICEIC form he left which states "further urgent action recommended: Scottish Power to supply and install BS1361 cutout and earth". I'm concerned that this position is taken by a national power company with major responsibility for customer safety.

The DNO do not legally have to provide an earth to an existing supply in accordance with The Electricity, Safety, Continuity & Quality Regulations 2002. The do have to provide one to a new supply.
This is something a lot of electricians do not know or understand.
If they do provide one you will need to ensure your bonding complies with BS7671 for it to be connected. Failing that an electrical contractor can provide a TT earth

Equipment on a consumer’s premises
24.—(1) A distributor or meter operator shall ensure that each item of his equipment which is on a consumer’s premises but which is not under the control of the consumer (whether forming part of the consumer’s installation or not) is—
(a)suitable for its purpose;
(b)installed and, so far as is reasonably practicable, maintained so as to prevent danger; and
(c)protected by a suitable fusible cut-out or circuit breaker which is situated as close as is reasonably practicable to the supply terminals.
(2) Every circuit breaker or cut-out fuse forming part of the fusible cut-out mentioned in paragraph (1)(c) shall be enclosed in a locked or sealed container as appropriate.
(3) Where they form part of his equipment which is on a consumer’s premises but which is not under the control of the consumer, a distributor or meter operator (as appropriate) shall mark permanently, so as clearly to identify the polarity of each of them, the separate conductors of low voltage electric lines which are connected to supply terminals and such markings shall be made at a point which is as close as is practicable to the supply terminals in question.
(4) Unless he can reasonably conclude that it is inappropriate for reasons of safety, a distributor shall, when providing a new connection at low voltage, make available his supply neutral conductor or, if appropriate, the protective conductor of his network for connection to the protective conductor of the consumer’s installation.
(5) In this regulation the expression “new connection” means the first electric line, or the replacement of an existing electric line, to one or more consumer’s installations.