does contract still stand if landlord has lost his copy

dz6kb4

thankyou all, very helpful.

I think you're right, we'll try to negotiate to get a good resolution for both parties.

G_M - it's good to know we have those options - I was scared because we lost the contract those options wouldn't be open to us.

COuld you clarify how you would give the s21 notice? we read up on it and it suggested we use an online template that lists the terms of s21 and we put the dates 2 months before the end of the tenancy? is this wrong?

thanks

franklee

dz6kb4 wrote: »

COuld you clarify how you would give the s21 notice? we read up on it and it suggested we use an online template that lists the terms of s21 and we put the dates 2 months before the end of the tenancy? is this wrong?

Perhaps it's not clear what dates you mean.

Can you post the wording you put about when you required possession in the S21 and any covering letter. Or blank out names and addresses and post a scan of the documents.

G_M

dz6kb4 wrote: »

thankyou all, very helpful.

I think you're right, we'll try to negotiate to get a good resolution for both parties.

G_M - it's good to know we have those options - I was scared because we lost the contract those options wouldn't be open to us.

COuld you clarify how you would give the s21 notice? we read up on it and it suggested we use an online template that lists the terms of s21 and we put the dates 2 months before the end of the tenancy? is this wrong?

thanks

* You must use the right form
* you must get the right notice period (dates)
* if you took a deposit, you must have registered it in a scheme within 30 days
* if you took a deposit, you must have given the tenants the Prescribed Information within 30 days

Get any one of the above wrong and the S21 is invalid and will be thrown out in court

spacey2012

Why serve an eviction notice without explaining to them why ?
I would think most people would try to find somewhere to live as quickly as possible.

dz6kb4

G_M - all your points below are ticked off. However, I'm now thinking I'm not bothered if the S21 is invalid.

If it is invalid does that mean they need to stay till the end of the agreement anyway? I could get the S21 revised and correct and issue it tomorrow?

Spacey - the tenants have always been aware this is only going to be a 6 months agreement and they were told why - so this isnt a surprise to them at all.

My main problem is they want to leave before the end of the 6 month agreement which I'm trying to establish is a breach in the agreement.

thanks again

Werdnal

spacey2012 wrote: »

Why serve an eviction notice without explaining to them why ?
I would think most people would try to find somewhere to live as quickly as possible.

S21 is not an eviction notice. Only a court can serve them. S21 is notice that the landlord will (or may) apply to court to end the tenancy after the 2 month period of notice has elapsed.


OP, I think this may be down to a lack of communcation between you and your tenants. Quite understandably, they have assumed your notice meant they had to leave by the date you gave them, and have worked to find an alternative property quickly. Obviously, they have made an assumption that they could leave earlier than the end of the fixed term, and you could enforce this, but you need to weigh up what you want to achieve here.

In an ideal world you could tie them into staying until the last day and paying all the rent. They could then stay PAST the last day and make you take them to court for a possession order - maybe another 6-8weeks after the notice expires. Should the court then find any minor error or discrepancy in your S21 paperwork, they would throw this out and your tenants could stay on whilst you served another S21, +2 months, +another round of court application and delays.

Whilst it is annoying and probably legally wrong that the tenants are leaving early, would you rather have the tenants gone, and have the property empty for you to freshen up OR a long, drawn out, costly and stressful eviction process which could see you not gaining possession of your property until around end of June if you are lucky.

You win some, you lose some - what is more valuable to you ... getting your property back when you need it, or an extra month's rent?

Werdnal

dz6kb4 wrote: »

If it is invalid does that mean they need to stay till the end of the agreement anyway? I could get the S21 revised and correct and issue it tomorrow?

Even if the fixed term ends at end of March, unless you serve a valid and correct S21, the tenants do not need to move out at all. Only the FT ends then, the tenancy continues until you legally and formally end it. If tenants have not left at 1 minute past midnight on 1st April, they automatically gain a sattutory periodic tenancy (SPT).

The only way you can end the tenancy is give notice and apply for possession if the tenants don't leave. Whether the end of the FT or not, you must serve a correct S21 notice as the first step to end the tenancy, otherwise tenants do not legally have to go anywhere!

You stated that they knew it was only a 6 month tenancy - it is not, it is a 6 month fixed term. The tenancy continues until you end it with an S21 notice and court process if they don't leave on notice expiry. I think you should be happy they are going, and cut your losses - as per my previous reply above, otherwise they could be in for the long haul and make your life very difficult!

franklee

dz6kb4 wrote: »

My main problem is they want to leave before the end of the 6 month agreement which I'm trying to establish is a breach in the agreement.

What date did your S21 ask for possession? Your "we put the dates 2 months before the end of the tenancy" is quite confusing. Did you ask for possession before the end of the fixed term? What did you ask them to do 2 months before?

G_M

dz6kb4 wrote: »

My main problem is they want to leave before the end of the 6 month agreement which I'm trying to establish is a breach in the agreement.

The simple answer to this is yes, it is a breach and you can deduct the outstanding rent from their deposit (as previously advised) and/or sue them for it in court.

However as Werdnall pointed out admirably:
a) it may not be in your best interests to stick to the letter of the law and
b) it is always preferable, and nicer all round, to discuss, compromise, reach a mutual agreement.

It does sound like they have actually tried to meet your needs. You made clear you want the property. They went out house-hunting and found somewhere. we all know finding a new place can be hard (not to mention expensive), and tying in new tenancy start date with expiry of old tenancy is impossible. But they probobly thought they were doing you a favour by handing back the property which is what you wanted.

Communication is the best way forward.

*********************

We served section 21 at the start of Feb ...

what date? ('served', not sent).

... expires end of March....

31st? And does this mean the Fixed Term? or the S21 Notice? Or both?
Although both your statements above are vague, it appears you have served too late.

outofmoney

Answering your question from a tenants point of view, rather than the legal side of things, we once received a note which said we had to be out by a certain date. To be honest I have no idea if it was an S21 and if it was whether it was correctly served. As tenants we knew nothing about these and just saw a letter telling us the LL wanted us out.

We actually left the day before we were due to be out. But had we found somewhere earlier we would have gone quicker. Not because we wanted to avoid paying rent but simply because we did not understand how things worked. Maybe this is also the case with your tenants. Do they fully understand that they are expected to stay until the date given?

Also why do you want them to leave? If it is because of a bad relationship maybe they are eager to go?

Perhaps a friendly chat would clear things up.