Child support, foreign mother

paddedjohn

christforgione wrote: »

Actually I can easily afford another child. What I can't afford (or rather won't accept) is to be screwed by some foreign government's child support system that takes no consideration of my circumstances. 20% of my net pay would be something like £12k a year for me at the moment. This seems alot, particularly as the average gross salary there is less than £10k a year.

Vasectomy is for those who aren't able to think in advance about these kinds of things IMHO. No plans for that at this point.. ouch

Actually vasectomy is for people who do plan things in advance. I had the snip after 2 kids because I knew kids were expensive and I wanted them to have a good start in life, 1 more would have stratched my earnings and ability to provide for them.;)

christforgione

sfm82 wrote: »

Well if you're gonna be such a smart a**e about it......

It seems that you're not prepared to listen to any advice that we're giving you and tbh I think its the only advice that you're gonna be getting out of this ridiculous hypothetical situation.

I'm going to ignore the personal attack. I will however pick up on the "ridiculous hypothetical situation" comment. As far as I can tell this is a financial advice forum? If I was asking about buying a house in the Czech Republic and what the implications might be for a mortgage if I lost my job in 5 years time, presumably that hypothetical situation would be ok? This situation may seem ridiculous and hypothetical to you, but there are real people involved who will be making real decisions in the coming months.

If you arent prepared to pay the amounts for CS that the czech republic will want out of you when you allow your ex to leave the country with your own flesh and blood then dont put yourself in that situation in the first place, its not rocket science.

Just to clarify, according to Payne v Payne it is possible for a mother to take the child from the country without the father's permission. I didn't include the reference as a point scoring exercise, I simply mentioned in case anyone happens to type "CSA Czech Republic" in a search and find this in future.

Have you even bothered to check if the czech republic is compliant with the REMO unit meaning that they can enforce this ludricous amount of money to support your child you chose to have?

This is helpful advice, thank you. Czech Republic has a reciprocal arrangement and is covered by REMO. According to the Government website "The precise nature of reciprocity available between the UK and another jurisdiction depends on the convention or agreement to which the other country is a signatory".

How would I find out more about the specific convention between two countries? Any suggestions would be gratefully received?


And as for the various comments like:

do you love her? do you see yourself with her in 20 years from now? can you afford to have a child now? do you want to have a child with her?

...and

Personally I wouldnt be having a baby with someone if I am already thinking about the consequences of separating.

As I understand it, the average relationship lasts 14 years in the UK. I don't know, but I can imagine that relationships between people of different nationalities might even have a smaller average duration? Maybe people who are divorced even less likely to "stay the distance"? It's hardly headline news, but relationships can and do fail no matter how we happen to feel in the moment. No doubt the majority of people posting in this Child Support forum with tales of woe started out with all of the best intentions.

I think it's not helpful to make taboo, a conversation around what might happen in the event of a potential breakup between a couple about who are about to start a family - especially so in an international relationship where breakup has potentially greater implications for all parties. I think it takes a certain level of maturity to be able to have that kind of conversation. That's certainly not a conversation I would have been able to have had while I was married and having a 3rd child assuming we'd be "together forever". Being armed with as many of the facts as possible before making my half of probably the most important life decision I can make is just common sense. Please don't waste your energy on the Hollywood stuff and your judgements about my relationship. Whether I feel it will last 20 years doesn't actually matter. It might or it might not. I don't know and nobody else can either. I just want to know as much as possible about the implications of "the worst case scenario".

Once again, thanks to everyone who has commented. I do appreciate you've taken the time.


@paddedjohn You're absolutely right. I take back what I said before about vasectomies. The decision to have one is a responsible for self and society I agree.

Errata

Long version short: have a child and accept financial responsibility for it. Seems fairly straightforward to me.

christforgione

Errata wrote: »

Long version short: have a child and accept financial responsibility for it. Seems fairly straightforward to me.

Totally agree. Just want an idea of what that "financial responsibility" potentially is in the event of breakup, i.e. is it according to Czech rules or UK rules, because the numbers look very different.

Errata

I would guess the rules are dependant on which country the case arises in.

Voyager2002

I think the key questions have to be about your relationship... are you confident that, whether or not the relationship survives, you will always treat each other decently? Your OP makes it very clear that you and your ex behave well to each other: you are mature and supportive about child support; she responds by accepting what she believes the children need rather than taking the maximum amount that the law and "the system" would give her. Anyway, if you are seriously considering having a child with your current partner, surely you can be reasonably confident that she would behave with equal consideration. No-one can say for sure whether or not a relationship will last, but it is possible to be reasonably confident that someone you trust would not exploit you. All in all, I suggest a frank conversation about what might happen... whatever you agree would not be legally binding, but some people really do keep their promises, even after divorce.

HoneyNutLoop

This legislation would appear to be relevant to your question: http://www.familylaw.co.uk/system/uploads/attachments/0003/5097/Practice_Direction_34C.pdf

This seems to suggest she could apply for a maintenance order in the Czech Republic to be enforced here: http://www.childsupportlaws.co.uk/moving-abroad-issues.html
(Which seems to be standard practice for those who have shared their experiences with other countries and REMO - just search for REMO in the forums to view the threads).

This lists all the REMO countries and the respective laws that govern the reciprocal arrangements: http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/protecting-the-vulnerable/official-solicitor/reciprocal-enforcement-of-maintenance-orders/remo-location-list.pdf

Aside from these links, I have no personal experience with the Czech system to say anything more.

Errata

Another POV is that there is nothing to prevent the OP applying for full custody of the child.

sfm82

I wasn't attacking you anymore than you were attacking the people who came on here to offer you advice you didnt see fit for your purposes.

Anyway getting back on topic......You should probably also take into account that regualtions for CS payments are always changing so what may apply now may not apply in 5, 6, 7, 8 years time if you break up with your patner and she moves away.

As far as I know you can't even arrange a legal agreement between the two of you outlining CM payments (much like a prenup) as the CSA doesnt take them into account.

Seeing as no one here seems to have any experience with REMO in the czech republic maybe you should call REMO and ask them if our CSA rates apply or theirs.

christforgione

Thanks all for the input. This has clarified my understanding. I will contact REMO for more advice.