Pension Credit & Universal Credit

helentay_2

hi people,

I hope I am at the right place if not please let me know.

I have many questions and thoughts going on in my head at the moment so I will just stick to the first two if that is alright with you at the moment.
Mum has eventually asked me to get involved in their financial life. Dad is so proud, that he would never think of asking anyone for help, even me, saying that he can handle anything that the government throw at him.
Well he can't, he is confused and has given up, hence why mum got in touch with me.

Basically all of their problems relate to benefits for the older person and central to that is Pension Credit.

OK a bit of history. Dad is 63 & mum is 69. Dad claims ESA & DLA whilst mum claims the State Pension and AA.

Dad is in the Support Group of ESA and gets high mobility and middle care of DLA. Mum gets high AA.

I know mum has claimed Carers Allowance for dad but doesn't get paid anything as it is for less than her State Pension, so she has an underlying entitlement. Dad is refusing to claim Carers Allowance for mum as he says that he will be worse off if he does.

Having looked at the Pension Credit amounts, it seems that they should get the basic couple rate and the couple rate of disability premium, plus mum would get the carers premium. All in all that would give them a guaranteed income of £366.90 a week.

Dad has said that if he claimed for mum he would lose a half of the disability premium - £58.20, but gain the carers premium of £32.60. This would give them a guaranteed income of £341.30 a week. Is that right and if so why? They live with each other and nothing changes except they would lose £25.60 because dad says that he cares for mum which he does.

To me if this is right it sometimes doesn't pay for husband and wife to claim for each other as they lose out financially.


The second thing is all to do with Universal Credit. When is the best time for them to put a claim for Pension Credit in? I hear that it is coming in in April but rolled out nationally in October. Now dad won't be 65 until June 2014.

Do they claim it now before the new rules of one party not being of pension age and the other is and having to claim UC instead, or should they put off claiming it until after October when UC rules apply. I am thinking of what would be the best financial advice.

If they claimed Pension Credit now, they would, if my calculations are right and turn2us is right, with dad not claiming carers allowance for mum they would get an extra £58 a week, if dad did claim carers allowance for mum that would go down to £32 a week.

Now I don't know what they would get under UC if they waited until October to make a claim. Are there any calculators around that could help?

Thanks for reading

Helen.

helentay_2

Just bumping it up hoping that someone can give me a bit of guidance

Thankyou

Helen

Horseunderwater

If you have input both scenarios into turn 2 us - it should tell you the current amount that they get.
Have you tried this possibilty? ESA couple support with no PC or PC wth no ESA to see if that makes any difference income wise? One might be more - I don't know but it might be worth having another fiddle tinker with it all.

sleepless_saver

helentay wrote: »

If they claimed Pension Credit now, they would, if my calculations are right and turn2us is right, with dad not claiming carers allowance for mum they would get an extra £58 a week, if dad did claim carers allowance for mum that would go down to £32 a week.

Helen.

I make it (using turn2us) that they would get about £30 more if he claims CA. Makes sense as there would be 2 lots of carers premium added.

helentay_2

Horseunderwater wrote: »

If you have input both scenarios into turn 2 us - it should tell you the current amount that they get.
Have you tried this possibilty? ESA couple support with no PC or PC wth no ESA to see if that makes any difference income wise? One might be more - I don't know but it might be worth having another fiddle tinker with it all.

Thankyou

Yes I have done all of that and the figures come out as I have shown in my post.

I just can't understand why there would be a £25.60 reduction in income with dad claiming for mum or not. It's not as though there is soemone else involved say me claiming for mum.

It seems that witth dad claiming Carers Allowance for mum they will lose half the disability premium - £58.20, but gain the carers premium of £32.60 instead!

I just can't understand the logic of it.

As for turn to us with my second question, it wont calculate anything that involves Universal Credit. Is there another calculator somewhere that I have missed that would be able to show what would happen if they claimed Pension Credit now or waited for Universal Credit to come in with the new rules of one being over 65 and the other under 65.

helentay_2

sleepless_saver wrote: »

I make it (using turn2us) that they would get about £30 more if he claims CA. Makes sense as there would be 2 lots of carers premium added.

Thankyou

Yes you are right, you have just shown me where I was going wrong. Yes it would go up by £32.60 because ESA is in payment and more than the Carers Allowance he too would only get the underlying entitlement.

It is my fault I didn't fully explain what I did.

Dad doesn't want to have to keep on going for these ESA medicals so mum wanted me to work it out what would happen if he closed down his ESA claim and just relied on pension credit. That is where I got my figures from.

Maybe if I simplify it, I know it is complicated.

1. Dad with ESA, DLA, mum with State Pension, AA & underlying CA and dad not claiming CA would give them a guaranteed income of £366.90 a week.

2. Dad with ESA, DLA, mum with State Pension, AA & underlying CA and dad claiming CA underlying entitlement would give them a guaranteed income of £399.50 a week.

3. Dad with CA (instead of ESA), DLA, mum with State Pension, AA & underlying CA would give them a guaranteed income of £341.30 a week.

The way I see it, correct me if I am wrong, the best way is No2 where dad claims everything he can, and in No3 if he closes down his ESA claim and claims CA for mum instead is the worst.

Still can't see it as nothing changes in their household, just that they move their benefits around a bit.

helentay_2

Does anyone know if it will be financially worthwhile waiting to claim UC instead of the current Pension Credit?

anmarj

helentay wrote: »

Dad has said that if he claimed for mum he would lose a half of the disability premium - £58.20, but gain the carers premium of £32.60. This would give them a guaranteed income of £341.30 a week. Is that right and if so why? They live with each other and nothing changes except they would lose £25.60 because dad says that he cares for mum which he does.

the rules for the disability premium is that Carers Allowance is not in payment in order for it to be paid, so if he is getting it now and he applies for Carers Allowance and it goes into payment it effects the disability premium, that is why it drops the applicable amount, BUT overall the effect is more money (if you add it together) but comes through in the form the two benefits but it is not obvious.

As for Universal Credit and PC, not sure as I am currently on Maternity leave and not due back until the summer

helentay_2

anmarj wrote: »

the rules for the disability premium is that Carers Allowance is not in payment in order for it to be paid, so if he is getting it now and he applies for Carers Allowance and it goes into payment it effects the disability premium, that is why it drops the applicable amount, BUT overall the effect is more money (if you add it together) but comes through in the form the two benefits but it is not obvious.

As for Universal Credit and PC, not sure as I am currently on Maternity leave and not due back until the summer

Thanks, I understand what you mean, but if dad did claim CA and it goes into payment, that will be additional income that will be deducted from the Pension Credit calculation. This will in effect cancel out each other.

Am I right?

As in 1. in my post, they would get £366.90 from all sources including the ESA

In 3. of my post they would get £341.30 which would include the carers allowance that he has claimed, but exclude the ESA which he had stopped.

It seems to me that financially they would be better off by £25.60 a week if he didn't claim CA for mum which seems utterly ridiculous.

I can see where it all goes haywire but I was wondering if I have my figures wrong.

It really surprises me that there doesn't seem to be any calculator that would enable a 'what if' to be carried out comparing the rules and premiums under Pension Credit and those that will be in UC in April. Which benefit would be beneficial is impossible to find out.

All I can find is that if you do claim Pension Credit before UC comes in - you retain the right to it - I think.

OPTION 1
Dad

ESA £105.05
Annuities £52.88
Mum

State Pension £82.66
Annuities £67.44

Total Weekly Income£308.03
Guaranteed PensionCredit top up £58.87

Pension Credit Appropriate Amount £366.90 & Total weekly income from all sources


OPTION 3
Dad

Carers Allowance £58.45
Annuities £52.88

Mum
State Pension £82.66

Annuities £67.44
Total Weekly Income £261.43

Guaranteed PensionCredit top up £79.87
Pension Credit Appropriate Amount £341.30 & total weekly income from all sources

anmarj

http://www.focusondisability.org.uk/brates-2.html

has the Pension Credit 2013 rates from April

UC rates http://www.focusondisability.org.uk/universal-credit-benefit-rates-2013-2014.html

also had a thought is the ESA income related? If so, he would not be able to claim ESA and PC at the same time (as in effect both the same benefit)

helentay_2

anmarj wrote: »

is the ESA income related? If so, he would not be able to claim ESA and PC at the same time (as in effect both the same benefit)

Thanks for those links I'll have a go in the morning.

No it's contribution based.

Helen

PS I've just had a quick look. They are based on just one set of figures with no premiums!! Based on those figures mum & dad would get (after dad closes down his ESA claim) but they both claim to be carers, £179.64 a week and dad will have to sign on until he is 65 in June 2014. That's a joke, his GP and the rest of the team wouldn't sanction that!

But anyhow on the basis that dad has no choice in the matter, their guaranteed income that they could get now by claiming pension credit will drop from £341.30 a week to £179.64 a week at best £399.50 to £179.64 at worst!!!! Wow, what a drop. I hope that these figures are wrong somewhere.