Buying an underpinned house

bandagedtrunk

Thanks LazyDaisy - I think we're getting there now

I'm considering the biggest buying decision of my life and inviting people to shoot down a viewpoint without pulling any punches. I respect that in this forum, there is a great deal of unease.

The question now is, does this forum and those posting reflect the mindset of the buying public?

bandagedtrunk

"However you canvassed opinions and the consensus is that most people would walk away. This will almost certainly also be reflected by potential buyers when you come to sell, which will reduce the pool of buyers and therefore the saleability and probably the value of your house. "

If it would almost certainly be reflected in the price then would this not be taken into account in my own surveyors valuation? If it isn't then this is a tangible issue. If it is, I walk in with my eyes open.

Anyone any knowledge on what factors are considered by surveyors?

Oog

Hello Bandaged,
Having lived through a whole house being underpinned and experienced the pile driving and associated works, I personally wouldn't hesitate to live in such a dwelling.
It is very unlikely that it is going to move again!

So, if you love it and you are not overly concerned about future buyers you could look upon it as work done (although I would want to chase up that paperwork before proceeding - what if they have only done one side/wall/bay? That might mean there could be more work for you or the insurers to do in the future, in which case I would think again).
This does gives you an excellent bargaining tool, to try and reduce the price a little more.

rob404uk

As a previous member of the buying public, I was about to buy a house that had underpinning 20 years ago. The only insurance I could find was through the vendors insurance company and that was treble what it would have been if not underpinned. I therefore asked for a discount, and this was not granted so i pulled out. I may have continues if Legal and General offered me an insurance policy at a competative price though.
It does make a difference on what people are willing to pay though. I asked for a 10% reduction in price (basically saying I am too scared to continue) Old man who is a surveyor thought 2% was nearer the mark.

In conclusion, it will make a difference when you sell. However, if it is a forever home I would have no regrets in making that purchase because as you say, with underpinning of over 15 years ago it probably has stronger foundations than a house that has not been underpinned.

rob404uk

The underpinning only came to our attention after a local search.

bandagedtrunk

"So, if you love it and you are not overly concerned about future buyers you could look upon it as work done (although I would want to chase up that paperwork before proceeding - what if they have only done one side/wall/bay?"

Good point Oog. EA has confirmed that paperwork missing. If the work was lodged with the council at the time it was done, would this show up in searches via solicitor? Would a structural engineers report be able to tell the extent and efficacy of the work if it didn't show up in searches? I admit to unease regarding quality of work if not.

rob404uk - sorry to hear about your sale falling thorugh. Seems hard to believe that L&G are the only insurer who does the 15 year rule? I found out about them through a search on this forum. Perhaps the risk here is that if only one insurer has this policy and if that changes then it's back to specialist insurers and a higher premium.

bandagedtrunk

So in summary thus far

1) Can surveyors quantify and take into account public stigma around the word "underpinning" when valuing

2) Can a structural engineer/building surveyor provide sufficient surety regarding the integrity of a buildings foundations for a buyer to make a buying decision in the absence of any paperwork or council records

3) Are there other insurers apart from L&G who will insure underpinned buildings without charging extra after a certain no. of years?

4) Are there likely to be enough complete idiots like me around at point of resale who would happily consider buying an insurable, lendable structurally sound underpinned des res at market value*

*For market value - see 1)

ruggedtoast

bandagedtrunk wrote: »

So in summary thus far

1) Can surveyors quantify and take into account public stigma around the word "underpinning" when valuing

2) Can a structural engineer/building surveyor provide sufficient surety regarding the integrity of a buildings foundations for a buyer to make a buying decision in the absence of any paperwork or council records

3) Are there other insurers apart from L&G who will insure underpinned buildings without charging extra after a certain no. of years?

4) Are there likely to be enough complete idiots like me around at point of resale who would happily consider buying an insurable, lendable structurally sound underpinned des res at market value*

*For market value - see 1)

1. No

2. They can't predict the future, they can tell you if its currently structurally sound

3. Most underpinned houses are insured under specialist insurers or brokers, like Adrian Flux. I suggest you ring round. The vast majority of high street insurers will not cover an underpinned property regardless of when the work was done. Some, like Legal and General and (I think) Aviva will if the work was long enough ago. What you need to appreciate is that their underwriting criteria change all the time and you will never have many options

4. Who on earth knows? If its a bijou des res in SE1 going for a song I'm sure you'll do fine selling. If its the most expensive house in an area of Stoke where they;'ve just announced a bypass and a new retail park next door, I would guess you might struggle to find another buyer.

bandagedtrunk

ruggedtoast wrote: »

1. No

2. They can't predict the future, they can tell you if its currently structurally sound

3. Most underpinned houses are insured under specialist insurers or brokers, like Adrian Flux. I suggest you ring round. The vast majority of high street insurers will not cover an underpinned property regardless of when the work was done. Some, like Legal and General and (I think) Aviva will if the work was long enough ago. What you need to appreciate is that their underwriting criteria change all the time and you will never have many options

4. Who on earth knows? If its a bijou des res in SE1 going for a song I'm sure you'll do fine selling. If its the most expensive house in an area of Stoke where they;'ve just announced a bypass and a new retail park next door, I would guess you might struggle to find another buyer.

Thanks rugged

1) Based on?

2) I'm trying to ascertain confidence level given by structural engineers report on structural integrity in mitigation of the absence of paperwork or council records in this case.

3) Ta. Property was underpinned more than 15 years ago. L&G will insure at regular rates. And now possibly Aviva (will check). I'll take onboard your comment that criteria change all the time but would ask what you're basing that on.

4) It's lovely. The best on Rightmove in my desired location at the price imho. I'd have mentioned that before but I wanted cold hard logic from you lot, I'm too in love with it.

dacouch

bandagedtrunk wrote: »

I've checked and double checked with L&G, I have it in writing ie
"

As long as the underpinning works were completed more than 15 years ago and there has been no further structural movement then we can offer cover under our normal terms."

After 15 years, is it any more likely to move than a non underpinned property? Less so perhaps? And if it does, surely it's covered as per L&G

My lender told me on the phone that if it's insured, they're ok about the underpinning.

I can be talked out of this but I'm sensing a general unease at the words underpinning and paperwork rather than what that tangibly translates into in my particular case

I'm assuming that any future buying unease will be reflected in my buildings survey valuation (which takes into account several factors including marketability) so is that not covered?

Worth the cost of a survey/valuation?

What will you do if L&G decide to stop offering cover for previously underpinned properties?

They have only very recently started offering cover to them.

If a property is not underpinned all the way around it's not uncommon for it to move again on the non underpinned walls