Non-payment help needed

dp313

Sorry if this is in the wrong section I have a bit of a problem I could do with some advice with please, bare with me;

I had a request from a friend of a friend to put a website together, I am a graphic designer so spoke to a friend at work who pointed me in the direction of someone he had used in the past. I contacted him and got a quote.

I then put a mark-up on it for my time and the input I would have which included some branding like logo's and some print and general direction of the build.

I took deposit for the work and forwarded this to the web-guy. He built the site to a good standard and the website was a real bargain.

Yesterday The client met with the web-designer to do a 2 hour tutorial about the functions of the site to which resulting in the website designer requesting the remaining payment, after I had specifically told him I would be paying him the total amount upon completion to save any confusion, he was aware of my mark-up, and basically between them they have belittled my input resulting in the client refusing to pay the remaining chunk to me leaving me with nothing out of the whole job.

a few facts:

- I have email quotes at the initial stage which she agreed to.
- The web-site hosting is with the designer (who is ignoring me)
- I have threatened legal action, maybe small claims court
- She has said to go ahead and she will seek advice about a total refund
- I have over 100 e-mails to both designer and client to prove my involvement.

How do I go about getting my share? She has taken the hump because of my mark-up but upon completion of the website she e-mailed saying how delighted she way with the final result. The web-guy has been incredibly unprofessional in my view but he is not replying yet but is largely unaware of the repercussions of his actions and I have asked him to call me asap.

Any advice appreciated,

visidigi

What contract do you have in place with the buyer?

The client can refuse to pay, but you'll be able to take them to court should you have a sufficient contract inplace.

Based on the information shared so far there is no reason for her to be entitled to a full refund - you don't state what your markup was (even in % terms) so I suspect it might have been quite considerable and thats whats caused the main issue here?

arcon5

Sounds like the designer is merely your subcontractor. Whether he likes your markup or not is irrelevant, both parties agreed a price and the service was provided.. Now payment is due

dp313

Thanks for taking the time to reply,

There was no contract as such, just an e-mail quote with confirmation of what she would get, which she has been completed.

Website cost = 500
Total cost = 740

My mark up was for branding, stationary, and my correspondence time which involved well over 200 emails between the two effectively project managing, apparently I should have done all of the above for £50, which is how much I received, leaving me £190 short.

It's not a great amount but I put a lot of time into this project to ensure she got what she desired and feel like I have just been slapped in the face.

Should I just go straight to small claim court with the emails and details? As far as I am concerned she agreed the price?

Many thanks in advance

dp313

arcon5 wrote: »

Sounds like the designer is merely your subcontractor. Whether he likes your markup or not is irrelevant, both parties agreed a price and the service was provided.. Now payment is due

This is my view, the designer has sought payment directly who has abliged now I'm left with a client who has a website, a designer who will do nothing because he has been paid, seems a joke to me but just don't know what my chances are at getting the money. It's only 190, but to me that's a lot of money

visidigi

You can kinda see why this has happened, with a 50% mark up I would never have left the designer and client in the same room at any point - this was always a risk.

The thing is she owes you the money, if you ended up in court based on what you've said you would like succeed, but is £190 worth the risk to the reputation damage she could cause you?

This is a decision you need to make, if you think its worth pursuing then send her the full and final invoice with all previously made payments deducted and provide the usual invoice terms for settling the outstanding balance.

If that isn't paid then you can issue a letter before action and if that then fails you should look to the SC Court for a solution to your situation.

In any case, I would advise it to be a lesson learned for sure.

ILW

The client still owes you the full contract amount. What she gave to the designer is her own problem.

spacey2012

You should never work without a purchase order on headed paper and wet signed or a contract.
Your business will not last very long without them.

dp313

Many thanks for your kind input,

Reputation is no problem, I am employed full-time and this is nothing to do with them, nor do they know where I work. This is completely separate and something I was doing in my own time,

The lady in question was selling her products via facebook and I have guided her to a brilliant looking and fully functional website.

I understand her annoyance that 'if' she knew people within the industry and had managed to find a web designer herself maybe she would have paid £500, but as a going rate for quite a complex e-commerce website is closer to 1.5k-2k I thought she would be appreciative. I had warned the web designer that costs were to be discussed with me and I would be paying him but when she offered to pay the balance I'm guessing he naively thought why not! Leaving me in a difficult position.

Granted it was quite a markup, but that was an educated decision based upon the potential hassle I could have had, as it happened it went fine, until now!

I guess my question is, presuming I go small claims court, do I claim 540 which is what i expecyed, or the remaining 190 she refuses to pay? As the client has actually paid 500 of the 740.

I will Persie it because I just can't see how she has a leg to stand on, especially as I have nothing to lose

Thanks folks

jogu

I think your next step would probably be a "final letter before action", to set out the position.

If you're sure the design has been made and is happy, I would only include the money you are still out - ie. the £190.

As a side note, I am not sure I would describe the £240 as a "mark up". It's your professional fees for project management, logo design, etc. The £240 doesn't sound an unreasonable price for that.

If you do decide to pursue it, make sure you have your personal tax situation clear, as CCJs are essentially public record. I can't advise on your exact situation, but if it was deemed that you are self employed for this contract then there are strict timelines for telling HMRC - iirc, within 3 months of starting self employment.

somethingcorporate

It's good advice, you need to come to any claim with clean hands so make sure you are registered for self-employed if you are going to be getting any income upon which you need to pay tax.

Very unprofessional of the website designer but it appears you need to deal with the mess. I'd suggest small claims is the best way to go about it once you send a LBA.

Referring to it as a mark-up is not strictly true given you were providing a service for that money, which is perfectly justifiable.

Whether she likes it or not she has to pay, there is nothing to stop bad deals being made. I think most people would be horrified to know what margins are made on most products, but ignorance is evidently bliss - as you have learned!