Sacked and no reply for appeal

Person_one

missM wrote: »

When I came out in tears my dad went to see the manager he said we employe your daughter and nit you.

He's right.

Unfortunately, once you leave school you can't bring your parents in to sort things out for you.

What about a mental health advocate though?

http://www.mind.org.uk/mental_health_a-z/8040_advocacy_in_mental_health

missM_2

KiKi wrote: »

Okay. Then first of all you have no protection against unfair dismissal, I'm afraid. Only wrongful dismissal which occurs if they don't follow contractual procedure, for example.

If you were *only* sacked on the basis of the £10 then it doesn't sound like Gross Misconduct. However, they only need reasonable belief that you intended to take the money, and that in itself could lead to GM.

I think they probably sacked you for a number of reasons, mainly your absence, and used this incident as a way to get rid of you. Most managers who really wanted you there and believed your story wouldn't dismiss you as a result of this - so I would hazard a guess that they wanted you to leave. Even if you got your job back they could dismiss you for any other reason (with a few exceptions) within the next 18 months anyway.

If I were you, I would wait to hear about the appeal. But if I didn't hear back, rather than pursuing it, I'd let it go. What you could do is ask your manager to write you a neutral reference which doesn't say you were dismissed, nor for what reasons - I think that's the best you'll probably get from this. I think any ET claim which may occur from wrongful dismissal (and that's only a possibility without knowing if the procedure is contractual, which I doubt) would be detrimental to your health anyway.

I certainly wouldn't ask your parents to call your manager to get an explanation. I would get a copy of the disciplinary process, then decide whether to chase the appeal. And assuming nothing comes of it, ask your manager for a neutral reference.

KiKi

I know it would be difficult to go back even if I won an appeal. I would rather have a reference that didnt stop me getting another job. I live at home and dont really pay board. I only earned a few hundred pounds a moth which was all mine this paid my phone bill and odds and ends for the month. The job isnt my life but I want a little job. This was ideal as it was on my door step. Ive had issues growing up which I do not want to talk about and been under a councillor and seeing people at the iapts clinic. My concern is not doing anything and sitting home all day worrying. I have made little errors such as the cash card incident and holding onto money for 8 minutes but im not a thief. I have a few issues with my life but I dont think I should be punished forever

KiKi

missM wrote: »

I know it would be difficult to go back even if I won an appeal. I would rather have a reference that didnt stop me getting another job. I live at home and dont really pay board. I only earned a few hundred pounds a moth which was all mine this paid my phone bill and odds and ends for the month. The job isnt my life but I want a little job. This was ideal as it was on my door step. Ive had issues growing up which I do not want to talk about and been under a councillor and seeing people at the iapts clinic. My concern is not doing anything and sitting home all day worrying. I have made little errors such as the cash card incident and holding onto money for 8 minutes but im not a thief. I have a few issues with my life but I dont think I should be punished forever

You're right, you shouldn't be punished forever - which is why I recommend you perhaps ask for a neutral reference and use that to move forward. Have you worked anywhere else? Worst case scenario, you can leave this job out of your CV and use references from other work or voluntary jobs etc instead.

Don't worry - plenty of people have problems early in their working life and move on to other jobs. And they often move on with a better sense of who they are, and how to overcome issues. They certainly find jobs again.

Whilst you're off, use this time to help your own mental health - talk to whoever you need to talk to and work on getting yourself better. Apply for the benefits you may be entitled to, and start applying for jobs. But if you can find some voluntary work in the meantime that might be really good for your self esteem as well.

I think that letting this job go is probably the right thing for you, from what you've posted. You sound quite vulnerable at the moment so being in a workplace where a manager doesn't want you probably won't be very good for you.

All the best.
KiKi

missM_2

KiKi wrote: »

You're right, you shouldn't be punished forever - which is why I recommend you perhaps ask for a neutral reference and use that to move forward. Have you worked anywhere else? Worst case scenario, you can leave this job out of your CV and use references from other work or voluntary jobs etc instead.

Don't worry - plenty of people have problems early in their working life and move on to other jobs. And they often move on with a better sense of who they are, and how to overcome issues. They certainly find jobs again.

Whilst you're off, use this time to help your own mental health - talk to whoever you need to talk to and work on getting yourself better. Apply for the benefits you may be entitled to, and start applying for jobs. But if you can find some voluntary work in the meantime that might be really good for your self esteem as well.

I think that letting this job go is probably the right thing for you, from what you've posted. You sound quite vulnerable at the moment so being in a workplace where a manager doesn't want you probably won't be very good for you.

All the best.
KiKi

I think you are right. There is no way I could do a full time job. How would I write to the manager asking for a reference? I would like to go to college but I cant get job seekers allowance as they say I cant do a course and claim. The college say I can do a free hairdressing course if I get job seekers but I cant cause im not job seeking. I cant do a free course if im not signing for benefits. The course is 700 pounds and travel would be another 300. My parents would pay for travel or I could if I could get job seekers. If im not claiming the course isnt free so im stuck in the problem too

KiKi

missM wrote: »

I think you are right. There is no way I could do a full time job. How would I write to the manager asking for a reference? I would like to go to college but I cant get job seekers allowance as they say I cant do a course and claim. The college say I can do a free hairdressing course if I get job seekers but I cant cause im not job seeking. I cant do a free course if im not signing for benefits. The course is 700 pounds and travel would be another 300. My parents would pay for travel or I could if I could get job seekers. If im not claiming the course isnt free so im stuck in the problem too

Re the benefits and course side, I suggest you post on the Benefits board on here, as they'll be better able to tell you how to go about courses and navigate JSA etc.

Re the reference, I think that depends on your company, and how it operates, as well as the relationship with your manager. If you felt able, you could go in and see your manager and personally ask for a good reference (if, for example, you are retracting your appeal). Or, wait for them to respond to the appeal letter, then you could - depending on what they say - say that you won't progress it if they can offer a neutral reference.

Or write to them and say you're going to move on, but in order to support you moving on, politely ask for a neutral reference. You may want to wait until you hear about the appeal first. If you do, come back here and someone could help you write a letter to that effect (or PM me and I could help you write it).

Hope that helps.

KiKi

jobbingmusician

The main reason I asked you to ask for a copy of their disciplinary policy was to establish the timescale within which they had to respond to your appeal. But actually, I am sorry to say that you are probably not entitled to an appeal. Do you have your contract of employment? (If not, you could ask them for a copy of that, as well.) If you have been employed there only for 4-5 months, are you still in your probationary period?

What I would suggest is that whatever your contract of employment says/whether you are entitled to an appeal or not, you write to them appealing against your dismissal. I assume from your posts above that you DO NOT want to return to work there, but DO want a fair reference, and if possible you would like the judgement of gross misconduct (GM) changed.

I will PM you a suggested form of words, as I don't think it will help your cause if your employer sees the letter you send them on a public forum. Please do note that I am not an expert, though! I am simply someone who has some experience as an employer, and dislikes unfairness!!!!

KiKi

jobbingmusician wrote: »

The main reason I asked you to ask for a copy of their disciplinary policy was to establish the timescale within which they had to respond to your appeal. But actually, I am sorry to say that you are probably not entitled to an appeal. Do you have your contract of employment? (If not, you could ask them for a copy of that, as well.) If you have been employed there only for 4-5 months, are you still in your probationary period?

What I would suggest is that whatever your contract of employment says/whether you are entitled to an appeal or not, you write to them appealing against your dismissal. I assume from your posts above that you DO NOT want to return to work there, but DO want a fair reference, and if possible you would like the judgement of gross misconduct (GM) changed.

I will PM you a suggested form of words, as I don't think it will help your cause if your employer sees the letter you send them on a public forum. Please do note that I am not an expert, though! I am simply someone who has some experience as an employer, and dislikes unfairness!!!!

Hi JM

The OP has already PMd me asking for help as well - it doesn't matter who does it (I'm certainly not precious about it!). But rather than both of us sending her a letter - which I think she'd find confusing to put together as one - do you want to either pick this up directly with her, or send me a letter that I can add to if I think there's anything else that would be helpful?

I can't get onto this until Weds anyway, so no probs with you doing it. But she definitely wants a neutral ref as a result which is the aim of the letter (rather than pushing an appeal).

Just think she would find it easier if she gets one letter rather than two.

KiKi

jobbingmusician

Kiki, I think that is a brilliant idea. I will write a letter and send it to you and the OP - between the 3 of us we should be able to come up with something good

OP - you know that letter they sent you which you had to pick up from the PO? Hang on to it - am I correct in thinking they didn't put sufficient postage on it, and this is why you had to collect it and pay extra?

KiKi

jobbingmusician wrote: »

Kiki, I think that is a brilliant idea. I will write a letter and send it to you and the OP - between the 3 of us we should be able to come up with something good

Okay, I'll look out for it and we'll get it done!

missM_2

jobbingmusician wrote: »

Kiki, I think that is a brilliant idea. I will write a letter and send it to you and the OP - between the 3 of us we should be able to come up with something good

OP - you know that letter they sent you which you had to pick up from the PO? Hang on to it - am I correct in thinking they didn't put sufficient postage on it, and this is why you had to collect it and pay extra?

That's correct yes. They called me asking why I had not been to the meeting, I had not received anythnigs informing me of the meeting. It was not until I had a card through the post telling me I had a package to collect and it needed paying for. the package was a letter of the meeting and my note takers notes from the last meeting which was them asking me my side of the story and them telling me what had happened. Then they said they would do a disclaplinary

I have read the letter you have pm-ed me. Is thisthe final draft you you 2 guys or am I waiting for the go ahead?