Selling Up and Bailing Out

rizla01

Romani_Ite_Domum wrote: »

GG I am sure you are a very good LL so don't take this personally.

BTL has fueled high HPI.
High HPI has meant people not affording to buy = misery
High HPI has caused people to borrow beyond thier means = misery
High HPI = People unable to move up "ladder" = misery
High HPI = People putting off having children = misery
High HPI causes boom bust cycle.
High HPI makes LLs feel wealthy = Joy
Bust = repossessions and NE = misery.
Bust = some people now affording to buy a home = Joy

Please don't think that all people predicting a correction in house prices are vultures waiting for a repossession. Most just want a decent home to call their own. We never created this situation.

I'm sure that GG and all of the other BTLers on here wont be taking your comments personally.:D

BTLers have only taken advantage of the situation. If we didn't then others would have, so I have no conscience with regards to those that cannot buy as a result.

A high HPI is not new and will get adjusted by other forces such as interest rates and taxes (Which affects all of the renters and mortgagees alike) in the long term.

To effectively reduce the values of property in this country would adversely affect the whole economy and in turn would force rents down and we would be back to square one.

Anyone that believes that having money in the bank instead of in property is a better deal needs their heads testing!

O.P.
If you sell up and don't wish to pay for a mortgage then buy a suitable property and get someone else to pay the mortgage (Rent) until it becomes affordable for you to pay it yourself. You presently, probably have enouigh for a deposit but may find that much harder to come by in the future.

Yep. You TOO can be a BTLer.:beer:

Romani_Ite_Domum

rizla01 wrote: »

I'm sure that GG and all of the other BTLers on here wont be taking your comments personally.:D

Rizla,thanks for your rational reply

BTLers have only taken advantage of the situation. If we didn't then others would have, so I have no conscience with regards to those that cannot buy as a result.

At least you are honest. It is the situation that is wrong.

A high HPI is not new and will get adjusted by other forces such as interest rates and taxes (Which affects all of the renters and mortgagees alike) in the long term.

Agreed.BTL is part of the mix for high HPI. Nevertheless it has contributed considerably.

To effectively reduce the values of property in this country would adversely affect the whole economy and in turn would force rents down and we would be back to square one.

Agreed. Question is how did the government ever get to a situation when the economy is reliant on high HPI?

Anyone that believes that having money in the bank instead of in property is a better deal needs their heads testing!

If you consider now to be the top of the market then no. As you have just said "A high HPI is not new and will get adjusted by other forces such as interest rates and taxes" IMHO the time is now.

Yep. You TOO can be a BTLer.:beer:

Could have been anytime. Just chose not to! :beer:

ManAtHome

rizla01 wrote: »

Anyone that believes that having money in the bank instead of in property is a better deal needs their heads testing!

Similar for anyone with most or all of their money in property... (or all or most in any one type of asset).

jyonda

rizla01 wrote:

Anyone that believes that having money in the bank instead of in property is a better deal needs their heads testing!

QUOTE]

Depends when you buy, when you sell, IR's, mortgage type and term and a squillion other things.....
What you're refering to is leverage where you invest with borrowed money for greater returns ie a mortgage. Your gains through leverage will depend on your ability to buy into the market at the right time ie a trough and location.

Gorgeous_George

Romani_Ite_Domum wrote: »

GG I am sure you are a very good LL so don't take this personally.

BTL has fueled high HPI.
High HPI has meant people not affording to buy = misery
High HPI has caused people to borrow beyond thier means = misery
High HPI = People unable to move up "ladder" = misery
High HPI = People putting off having children = misery
High HPI causes boom bust cycle.
High HPI makes LLs feel wealthy = Joy
Bust = repossessions and NE = misery.
Bust = some people now affording to buy a home = Joy

Please don't think that all people predicting a correction in house prices are vultures waiting for a repossession. Most just want a decent home to call their own. We never created this situation.

I really don't care about house prices. Obviouly I do care about my mortgage payments but I am very comfortable at the moment.

I have three kids and would like to see them afford a place of their own. Whether this would be best served by a price crash or by them getting decent jobs I don't know.

However, we will have to disagree about BTL fuelling HPI. I think planning regs and immigration together with the welfare state encouraging kids to have kids rather than working for a living, are many times more culpable of fuelling HPI.

If BTL tenants didn't rent, they'd have to buy a house. Surely this would add to the number of people chasing a home of their own and thereby negating the effect of the BTL property becoming vacant.



GG

BTman

Gorgeous_George wrote: »

I really don't care about house prices. Obviouly I do care about my mortgage payments but I am very comfortable at the moment.

This is a lot of the problem, too many people only look at the monthly payments, not how much debt they are actually taking on.

Gorgeous_George wrote: »

I have three kids and would like to see them afford a place of their own. Whether this would be best served by a price crash or by them getting decent jobs I don't know.

I have two kids.. I'm afraid that having a "decent" job these day's still does not equate to being able to afford a decent property. Not everyone in the UK can earn over 50K...

Gorgeous_George wrote: »

However, we will have to disagree about BTL fuelling HPI. I think planning regs and immigration together with the welfare state encouraging kids to have kids rather than working for a living, are many times more culpable of fuelling HPI.

I think the BTL market has had a huge influence on HPI. Admittedly planning regs in the UK are terrible and immigration does play a part. How can "kids having kids" and the welfare state fuel HPI? They do not buy property, they used to rent from the council (be it paid or free), but as the council keep selling their council houses below market value they now have to rent from private landlords, ie BTL...

Gorgeous_George wrote: »

If BTL tenants didn't rent, they'd have to buy a house. Surely this would add to the number of people chasing a home of their own and thereby negating the effect of the BTL property becoming vacant.

Or, if BTL landlords didn't buy up all the FTB stock of houses they may consider it worth going to work as they could afford to buy a home, thus reducing the cost of the welfare state that you blame HPI for.

lynzpower

kingkano wrote: »

ummmmmm riggghhhtt... I often wonder where this magical mystical place is that rent is half the cost of a mortgage. The last 4 mths I looked at renting instead of buying the next house on. I found some places that were slightly less, most were similar. Nothing was anywhere near HALF a mortgage..... (fair dos I live in SE).

If you can find that.... definitely rent and save the difference. Quids in.

Im living in it

2 bed house in London E11 - 758pcm

to buy- easily 300k

lynzpower

meanmachine wrote: »

I was looking in North London earlier in the week.

Even in the poorer parts two bedders with short leases are going over the 3% stamp duty threshhold.

As they say on Dragon's Den, I'm out!

(Paying sellers silly money is one thing, but giving Gordon Brown 7K plus, na ah!)

Missed you round here MM

I overheard a woman while I was having lunch yesterday talking about buying a 3 bed ex council flat in hackey e8 for 280k .She was overjoyed that the EA had phoned her she said it sounded "perfect"

You know the world is hopping mad when you can rent one for 200pw (minus what you can negotiate down the rent for )
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-15145580.rsp?pa_n=1&tr_t=rent

Gorgeous_George

BTman wrote: »

This is a lot of the problem, too many people only look at the monthly payments, not how much debt they are actually taking on.

I know what you mean but I'm in the 5th year of a 15-year mortgage and could probably pay it off if I wanted to.

BTman wrote: »

I have two kids.. I'm afraid that having a "decent" job these day's still does not equate to being able to afford a decent property. Not everyone in the UK can earn over 50K...

I think a young couple earning £35K+ could afford a home in many parts of the UK

BTman wrote: »

I think the BTL market has had a huge influence on HPI. Admittedly planning regs in the UK are terrible and immigration does play a part. How can "kids having kids" and the welfare state fuel HPI? They do not buy property, they used to rent from the council (be it paid or free), but as the council keep selling their council houses below market value they now have to rent from private landlords, ie BTL...

:wall: This is where we disagree. Kids having kids and the welfare state lead to single mums needing houses. Immigration leads to immigrants needing houses. Planning regs lead to there being too few houses available (we live on an island BTW).

BTL properties are occupied by people who would otherwise have to buy their own home. Remove one BTL property from the rental market and there's one more family looking for a home. The effect is negligible.

BTman wrote: »

Or, if BTL landlords didn't buy up all the FTB stock of houses they may consider it worth going to work as they could afford to buy a home, thus reducing the cost of the welfare state that you blame HPI for.

Supply and demand. It's the rental market that drives BTL. I don't think prices would be much different if BTL didn't exist. If immigration, kids having kids didn't exist there would be less people wanting a house to buy or rent. Relaxation of planning regs could accommodate everybody.



GG

kingkano

Although if there wasnt the 30% of BTL properties sitting empty at any one time and they were all available to purchase to real families, there is your HPI sorted and housing shortage would be alot less yes???