In shock - Dog just "nipped" DS

tara747

Person_one wrote: »

Dear me.

The OP has calmed down, maybe you could too?

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Person_one

coolcait wrote: »

You wrote an emotive "won't someone think of the dogs" type post.

Another poster re-worded it so that it became an emotive "won't someone think of the children" type post.

Are they both valid posts? Or are they both posts written by someone who needs to calm down?

My post was a response to Nicki's assertion that rehoming and destroying a dog are world's apart. Just a factual reminder that its not necessarily the case, and that rehoming isn't the lovely happy ending for the dog that its seen to be sometimes.

One of my rescue dogs has had five owners, each of those probably told themselves they were putting the dog in a suitable 'forever' home.

Disclaimer: This post in no way compares or contrasts dogs and children, its just about dogs!

Dunroamin

Nicki wrote: »

Finally, I think there is a quantum difference between carefully rehoming a dog in a good environment and having a dog PTS, and those who can not see that this is the case, really need to get a grip.

Rehoming a snappy dog with people who have experience is one thing, if you know people who have the experience (as P1 does) and are able to take it on. This still seems to me to be an unusual situation.

For most people, rehoming means taking a dog to a rescue charity and hoping for the best. In this case you can either be honest and expect the dog to be there for a long time (or forever) or lying and passing your problem on to someone else.

Private rehoming is possible, but how many answers do you think you'll get from an advert where you say "We need to rehome our lovely dog because he's bitten the baby."?

I actually had to do this once with a rescue dog who bit a child (he had also growled at both our mothers) we were fostering and it was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. However, taking him back to the rescue kennels where we'd got him from would have been wholly irresponsible and I couldn't have lived with the possible consequences of that.

mysterywoman10

My lovely springer got ratty with me tonight, once again she was in her bed and I had to get her lead off her and she was sat on it.

She just does not like anyone touching her whatsoever when she is in her bed. Really growled at me, she got told off and has been going around looking sheepish and angelic ever since!

Thankfully I don't have small children running around, that are likely to go in there with her!! Anyone could come into the house or garden and she wouldn't bat an eyelid, apart from wee on them if she was very excited but HER bed...totally different matter!

Who was it who said "anyone who hates dogs and small children couldn't be all bad"?................. Misattributed to WC Fields but it was actually said about him :laugh:

There endeth the lesson

valkirn

thefishdude wrote: »

i also no that if she had bone and i tried to take it away she would nip my hand.

This is a huge no no for me, I own a dog and have had dogs my whole life and not once have i ever been worried about taking food away from the dog for fear of it nipping, biting or even growling at me this is one of the first things i train my dogs not to do as i have children and their safety is my utmost priority, i know i (as can any of the family) can walk up to my dog and take a bone or his food off him and he will go and lie on his bed until i give it back.

MissSarah151

Pechow wrote: »

I think people are misinterpreting GlasweJen's post. I read it as saying that you need to take responsibility when you have a pet, including when you have a family ("you need to take its needs into account")-either supervise/separate the dog and child at all times, or rehome the dog to someone who is able to meet its needs ("you don't have both").

"The dog came first" part read to me as "you need to take the dog into account before you have your kid/s and either make considerations for it so everyone is happy (separation/total supervision), or rehome it".

Nothing ridiculous there. Maybe I'm being too charitable in my interpretation.

I interpreted it the same way as you.

This isn't aimed at OP - but the whole knee-jerk reaction of 'just get rid of it' really REALLY annoys me. No wonder there are so many dogs in shelters needing re-homed when people seem to think they don't matter, they are just commodities and can be chucked away when you feel like it. Just wish people would think carefully and actually think about the long term implications before going out and buying that cute little puppy, because they do matter and they get incredibly stressed and extremely upset when separated from their owners.


Obviously if a dog is aggressive it can't be around a child - of course, before anyone says anything. In this case though, it was a very out of character *nip* (if you didn't see it though, wondering if it could be from claws, my westie has caught me on the face before by accident and it left a very visible mark - under the eye skin is very thin - especially on a child - obviously ignore this if you can see teeth marks) - indicating either the dog got a fright or got hurt. Definitely take him to the vet like others have said though to get him checked and make sure he doesn't have any pain/sores anywhere.

z.n

Dunroamin wrote: »

Rehoming a snappy dog with people who have experience is one thing, if you know people who have the experience (as P1 does) and are able to take it on. This still seems to me to be an unusual situation.

For most people, rehoming means taking a dog to a rescue charity and hoping for the best. In this case you can either be honest and expect the dog to be there for a long time (or forever) or lying and passing your problem on to someone else.

Private rehoming is possible, but how many answers do you think you'll get from an advert where you say "We need to rehome our lovely dog because he's bitten the baby."?

I actually had to do this once with a rescue dog who bit a child (he had also growled at both our mothers) we were fostering and it was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. However, taking him back to the rescue kennels where we'd got him from would have been wholly irresponsible and I couldn't have lived with the possible consequences of that.

We took on a rescue dog who turned out to be a real alpha (he should never have been given to us.) He thought he was king of the world and all he could survey. We had a lot of help from people with more expertise than us which helped, but in the end we decided to put him to sleep.

He required constant vigilance- he was an escapologist, dog aggressive, would not recall, was unsafe to have round strangers, not fully housetrained, had to be constantly supervised round the kids due to toy possesiveness and food aggression, and bullied our other dog. He would patrol the garden barking all the time, but would cause problems if kept indoors. He would try to mount any female (of any species) and was a terror for chasing cats. He would not eat for days at a time and would always leave food in his bowl and then defend it. He attacked the hoover and was frightened of the tv. He would snap and growl, but we could usually see the reason. We kept on for many months thinking it would improve-because he was so clever and learned tricks so fast. We had him castrated, had group and one to one sessions with a local (clicker) trainer.

Then sort of out of the blue (DH had just had a back operation and was out of action) when we thought we had things under control he bit a familiar adult (without any warning growl) who was petting him as I stood chatting to her by the door. Showed me my place in the pecking order!

We decided it was in his interests and those of the general public to put him to sleep. After so many months of effort and expense to get him socialised etc it was a real blow but we could not see how one could safely integrate him into any sort of domestic life. We did not know who we could trust to rehome him safely given his very broad range of problems which required constant management to avoid relapse and could not take the risk of him going to someone who might have children around. We certainly couldn't take him back to where we had got him from- after all they had given him to us knowing what they were doing. We discussed it with the vet who knew all the things we had tried and obviously had him down as a difficult patient (full muzzle every time etc). I still feel guilty about it but it felt like the best of a number of poor options at the time. I am not sure I would handle things differently now because I fully agree with the earlier poster- children (mine or anyone elses) do always come first.

heartbreak_star

tara747 wrote: »

QUOTE:Person_one
Its not as big a difference as it seems actually, when you [STRIKE]rehome [/STRIKE] let an animal into a home with children you have no idea what will happen to [STRIKE]it [/STRIKE] the child or what fate you are potentially letting it in for. No matter how much you think you've found the perfect [STRIKE]home[/STRIKE] dog, anything can happen to change that and the [STRIKE]dog [/STRIKE] child could still end up [STRIKE]abandoned, destroyed, rehomed again and again[/STRIKE] being traumatised, bitten, maimed, killed etc etc.

Its not a decision to be taken lightly.



How does that sound now?

Like a biased piece of bad editing?

HBS x

Nicki

Out of interest, how many times is the dog allowed to "nip" the baby before we move from it being "out of character" to being a problem requiring the dog to be rehomed?

I would say I was bitten (or nipped if you would prefer, though I can still point to the scars 30 years later) by my parents badly trained dog around half a dozen times over a ten year period, and my sister was probably bitten twice as often over the same period. I think that something should have been done about that animal long before it got to that level of aggression. Do the "Dogs have rights too" contingent consider that number of bites to be reasonable though?

OP has decided that one nip is OK. Does she have a figure in mind for when she does need to take action to protect her baby from becoming frightened of the dog or getting hurt? I would imagine that if you have let one bite go, then it becomes emotionally harder to take action for each subsequent bite unless it causes a much greater injury, as there has already been an acceptance that a certain degree of injury to the baby is ok.

pulliptears

splishsplash wrote: »

I'm glad your son if fine today, OP. I'm also glad you're going to give doggins a second chance.

Our family dog is a westie. We got her when my youngest was a toddler (he's 15 now). She is a lovely dog, well trained, kind, friendly, has never bitten anyone.

However, she has always disliked small children. I have no idea why, she's never had a bad experience to my knowledge, but from the first time we had toddler-aged visitors, she made it plain she was not impressed. At that stage, she could hop on the armchairs to sleep, which put her at exactly the wrong height for a toddler, i.e. face to face.

Once we were aware of all this, we just made sure to never let a situation arise where anyone was at risk. That meant the dog was never allowed on the furniture if small children were around (including my own), if we had small children visiting, the dog was put in another room. All of the children who visited regularly and my own children knew not to go near the dog if she was sleeping or eating, and they all knew not to go near the dog's food, toys or bed.

I think you're right that she deserves a second chance. I do think you should assume there is a chance of this happening again though, so set things up that the opportunity will never arise. It's not a big deal really, it's just another thing to put on your radar. In the same way we don't allow children to play close to open fires or to go in the cupboard where the cleaning supplies are, we don't allow pets too close to small children either unless it's in controlled circumstances.

My dog is elderly now, my children are grown, and we've never had an incident, so it's definitely possible to be sufficiently aware and pro-active. It just takes the willingness on your part. I'm so glad you've decided to give it a go. We have a responsibility to all our dependents imho. That includes our four-legged ones too. I'm not suggesting animals are more important than people, I'm just suggesting that pets are not disposable items that can be thrown out at the first sign of trouble.

Your post resonated with me Splishsplash.

Bob, our Westie came to us as a pup when DD was 2 and DS 7. They all grew up together.
Both children were taught that dogs need respect and that if they treated him well they would have a friend for life. They both fed, groomed, bathed and walked him and both knew the point when he'd had enough playtime and wanted some peace.
When DD was about 4 Bob was on the sofa asleep when she shot over to him, startling him. I wasn't surprised when he reacted by nipping her face.
The dog was sent to the yard (somewhat sheepishly) and DD and I had a chat about how making him jump had startled him and thats why he had snapped at her.

DD is now 15, and Bob an old man at 13. Between them that was the only incident. I never once dreamed of getting rid of Bob, or rehoming him. It was a one off incident that both learned from.