Dogmatic query

UKTigerlily

I have a query about Dogmatic headcollars . . . I have read that they can close the dogs mouth & am wondering if they could be used as an alternative to a muzzle? Now my dog isn't exactly dog aggressive, more fear reactive & she's never hurt another dog or I would use a muzzle, but she hates them & as she can't go offlead I don't want to make her walks even more boring - she won't even sniff while muzzled.

I have avoided walking in the country park as so many owners let their dogs get in her face & she will bite them - more of a grab, she never does damage but obviously I don't want that to happen.

I was thinking if the Dogmatic closes the mouth, would it work for the few seconds it takes for another dogs owner to come grab their dog or for the other dog to get bored & wonder off? (If she ever caused damage of course i'd be muzzling her, I just think maybe she will accept this & be happier wearing it as it's not covering all of her mouth)

Would love to hear from those who have used it or know how well it would do this

Sagaris

Dogmatics don't close their mouths as such - when you pull on the lead it tightens the part around the muzzle until the tension is off - our two beagles have them and they can still eat with them on. It might well work for what you describe! Dogmatics are excellent though, and really make them easier to control on a walk.

elsien

If it's similar to a halti, I used to use it with mutt when she was being a git with other dogs (nervous aggression).
It doesn't so much close the mouth as give you a lot more control over the head end and what it's doing. I found that if I kept an eye on mutt and could tell when when she was about to take a flying leap I could pull her head round and out of the way before the teeth connected to anything. Made her a lot more controllable and she was easier to hold onto in a controlled way if she really lost the plot and started pulling. I think the idea is that where the head goes, the body has no choice but to follow.
Of course not a blind bit of use if something sneaks up and takes you unawares. Worked for us though - I did muzzle mutt for a bit but it made her twice as bad as she knew she couldn't defend herself and went into panic mode that much quicker.
Mutt hated the feel on it on her nose and spent large amounts of time trying to get it off (I've heard the dogmatic is better than the halti in that respect) but in a similar situation to yours it made us both feel a lot more confident.

TBH I also used to work on the basis if my dog was on a short lead and I was calling to the other dogs owner to keep theirs away as mine would bite, if they then continued to let their dog approach and it got hurt, that was their problem not mine. Got fed up of telling people and being totally ignored.

sharloid

Nope, definitely not able to be used instead of a muzzle. They can take treats, eat, drink etc with them on which means they'd also be able to bite/nip if they wanted.

krlyr

No, it doesn't fully close the mouth, as others have said. The Halti goes tighter around the mouth, the Dogmatic really just gives you more control of the head.
Having said that, I own a fear reactive dog who will lunge and bark at close quarters and the Dogmatic has always given me plenty of control (and he's a 40kg dog - plus I often have Kiki with me too so add another 35kg and sometimes some defensive barking and lunging to protect her buddy!). Since moving a bit less rural, I've had a couple of incidents where I've been cornered or sprung upon by an overly friendly off-lead dog and oblivious owner. My tactic is to put Casper (the reactive one) behind me and hold Kiki out in front - she'll greet a dog, which distracts it long enough for me to shout to/at the owner, and Casper will be calmer with me bodyblocking the dog and with it not paying him attention. I hold the lead right near the Dogmatic for him and that keeps him behind even if he's working up to a full freakout (while the owner is taking a casual stroll over to us). Once dog has been grabbed by its own, I tend to spin on our heels and make for a quick exit (you can never trust them to keep their dog on-lead after an incident like that! Chances are they'll head across the field/park and let the dog off again and watch it make a beeline straight back to you!), which the Dogmatic aids as well.

I know that Casper doesn't bite even when pushed though - unfortunately we've been pushed that far a couple of times now and he will shut down rather than attack, and this is why I feel comfortable without the muzzle (unless he's on a longline - I tend to use a muzzle or at least carry one, even if it's mostly just a good visual deterrent to other dog owners). Knowing your dog will bite in that kind of situation, I would still be inclined to use a muzzle - you might be able to fit a fabric Dogmatic under a Baskerville muzzle, I know from experience the Halti used to fit underneath them. Alternatively, keep one clipped to your belt buckle or similarly accessible to quickly whack on if a dog does start to approach.

The behaviourist Chirag Patel does a fab video on introducing a muzzle - you should do similar foundation work with a headcollar too though, or the dog may hate that just as much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FABgZTFvHo

UKTigerlily

Definitely wouldn't use one under a muzzle as it's to enable us to walk at the country park again, right now we can't as she doesn't enjoy walks when muzzled & even though she wears it fine it's obvious she isn't having a good time. Right now we just stick to pavement walks which is boring for us both but means she doesn't need her muzzle so she still enjoys things.

If we do get the Dogmatic we will definitely introduce it properly as with the muzzle, I don't think she will mind it too much (hope not anyway!)

Dogmatic themselves have just replied & said it'd be ideal for her as i'll be able to turn her head away & keep her mouth closed until the other owner gets their dog? I thought it only opened once pressure was released if that makes sense?

Usually I will let her greet any dog that runs up & we have time if the owner isn't dawdling before she has had enough & snaps but some dogs she just doesn't like on site & will snap right away, luckily she's never harmed another dog & always comes off worse but I obviously don't want her behaving like it.

Are there any other headcollars that would work in this way?

mtbbuxton

Just to clarify, you are using a basket muzzle aren't you? The fabric type which keep the mouth closed should never be used to exercise a dog in - despite what the packaging says, they can't pant and drink in them or they'd still be able to bite!
When I was introducing the basket muzzle to my lurcher and whippet, I used a combination of cream cheese smeared on the end of it to encourage them to put their snout in and feeding small pieces of treats through the gaps in the plastic as they were wearing it. If you use Primula tubes, you can also squirt cream cheese in as you walk

It takes time, but with patience and encouragement, they can come to associate the muzzle with good things.

Good luck

M x

UKTigerlily

I don't use a muzzle now as she hates it, she was properly introduced to it & wears it fine (I also used primula) but she understandable doesn't like to wear it. Looking for something just to hold her mouth closed or turn her head away for a couple of seconds, I can hold her mouth closed with one hand but would rather use a headcollar if it will work

moomin5

The dogmatic doesn't keep the mouth closed on my dog to stop her nipping, but she does have a pointy dog snout so not sure if would on bigger snout. Foster dog has a headcollar (beaphar)which fastens snugly around the muzzle with a clip to adjust it but sometimes that loosens under strain. I would use headcollar with a double ended lead or maybe one of those halti clips as dogs can slip them.

I think with muzzles sometimes its better to use it all the time to be associated with going out for walks rather than occasionally so they are more likely to forget about it.