Elderly Care Cost Limit Proposals Resulting from Dilnot

Ken68

There is a chap up the road, had his legs orf, his wife is ninety and she has carers come in (from the Residential Care Home aforementioned) three times a day. Two of them, around 10minutes each visit, seven days a week. So..7hours a week and she pays £280. One of the carers barely understands English.
The alternative is £800 a week in the home.
It don't add up.

Mojisola

Ken68 wrote: »

So..7hours a week and she pays £280. One of the carers barely understands English.

There are lots of different care agencies around. Like everything else you buy, it's worth shopping around and finding the service you like at the best price.

Savvy_Sue

Ken68 wrote: »

So..7hours a week and she pays £280.

That's £20 per carer per hour, to him, but let's think about this for a minute.

Let's take one of your out of work nurses who'd be so glad to do this work as an example. Suppose you want 3 x 10 minute visits each day. You could offer to pay NMW of £6.19 per hour, and if all you need is someone to do a bit of washing up and make a cup of tea, maybe that's not unreasonable.

If, however, you actually want some skilled care, would you rather have this from a skilled professional and pay a skilled professional rate? Or pay someone NMW and have an unskilled novice?

Moving on, suppose your out of work nurse has to travel for 15 minutes each way to reach you. You're paying for 30 minutes, but they're unavailable for other work for 40 minutes each visit, ie 2 hours a day. Does £3 sound like a fair payment for that?

If your nurse is ill, do you go without a visit? When she takes holiday, do you go without a visit?

Or do you pay an organisation or agency to sort all that out for you? And to take up references and run CRB checks - these things don't come free!

Ken68 wrote: »

The alternative is £800 a week in the home.
It don't add up.

They will have economies of scale in the home. But I know I'd rather pay more to stay home, as would my mother ...

Mojisola wrote: »

There are lots of different care agencies around. Like everything else you buy, it's worth shopping around and finding the service you like at the best price.

and recognising that cheap isn't always best ...

Ken68

An out of work nurse IS a skilled professional and two or three patients can be a business and at £280 per patient is over £43,ooo p.a. and represents 2.5 hours per day per patient spread out.
At £43,000 a year she can sort out her own replacement staff.

Mojisola

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

and recognising that cheap isn't always best ...

And neither is the most expensive guaranteed to be the best.

British Gas will service your boiler for a goodly price but a local gasman could well do the job better and cheaper. The same applies to care agencies.

Savvy_Sue

Ken68 wrote: »

An out of work nurse IS a skilled professional and two or three patients can be a business and at £280 per patient is over £43,ooo p.a. and represents 2.5 hours per day per patient spread out.
At £43,000 a year she can sort out her own replacement staff.

But you seemed to be suggesting that for £800 per week you could get full-time care. You can't.

Mojisola wrote: »

And neither is the most expensive guaranteed to be the best.

British Gas will service your boiler for a goodly price but a local gasman could well do the job better and cheaper. The same applies to care agencies.

True. My point was more that if you are only prepared to pay peanuts / NMW, then I don't feel you can expect to find a skilled, qualified carer.

Bogof_Babe

Why do private full-time live-in carers cost so much when they don't have accommodation to pay for? Even if they buy their own food, and have professional expenses like appropriate clothing etc., that's still around £100 a day, less presumably paying their own tax, so net "profit" £80 a day. I'd do it if I was qualified and didn't mind living in someone else's home.

Mojisola

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

True. My point was more that if you are only prepared to pay peanuts / NMW, then I don't feel you can expect to find a skilled, qualified carer.

I think this is the problem with the care homes that meet the LA rates.

The ones I looked round had lots of young carers - some struggling with English - who obviously weren't well trained by the way they were interacting with the residents. The low wages and lack of training also leads to a regular turn-over of staff which isn't good for residents.

Savvy_Sue

Bogof_Babe wrote: »

Why do private full-time live-in carers cost so much when they don't have accommodation to pay for? Even if they buy their own food, and have professional expenses like appropriate clothing etc., that's still around £100 a day, less presumably paying their own tax, so net "profit" £80 a day. I'd do it if I was qualified and didn't mind living in someone else's home.

That's the key thing: most of us DO mind living in someone else's home, and mind even more living in their employer's home!

Plus I think even if they're not paying living 'costs', most people would have or want to have other accommodation - you never know how long live-in jobs are going to last!

Plus I'm not sure live-in accommodation isn't a taxable benefit ...

Ken68

Instant help is supposed to be available in a care home, but the same help is available in your own home via phones, pendants and helpers will be there at the critical times of getting up and going to bed.
I say 'instant help 'in a care home, the times I have visited here reports of patients ringing the bell forever, and eventually the cleaner or cook comes.
And it is the same G.P (or ambulance) who comes in an emergency. I suspect one of the main costs of care homes is repaying the banks for start up money.
24/7 care is a myth, it makes you feel safe, but break down the benefits and people are better living in there own home plus cheaper occasional help.