Welfare Reform

hohum

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

If you read the report you quoted, it specifically mentions social tenants and that taking in lodgers is normally given permission and that much of a lodger's rent is disregarded. Also see

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/lodger-rules-to-ease-impact-of-bedroom-tax/6522846.article

The 'Bedroom Tax' (spare room subsidy) that you are talking about and as in the context of the article, does not affect private tenants.

I took my info from the Shelter wesbite on taking lodgers and social housing. http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/sharing_and_subletting/lodgers

"Taking in a lodger will probably affect the amount of benefits you get if you're claiming. For example, if you're receiving housing benefit and you take in a lodger, the amount you get will almost certainly be reduced. If you simply don't tell them, you may end up having to repay an overpayment or be prosecuted for fraud. This also applies to income support (IS) and job seekers' allowance (JSA). The amount of council tax you have to pay may increase.
Renting out a room may also affect your contents insurance. Most insurers will put up premiums, but it's still important to inform them if you want to be sure that your belongings are protected. If you don't tell them, the insurance may not be valid.


If the income from letting a room exceeds a certain amount, then the landlord may also be liable to pay income tax.


The person taking in the lodger will also have responsibilities as a landlord."

The article you quote refers to a proposal by a Lord in the House of Lords, as the bill re bedroom tax was being passed in 2012. Of course entirely possible Shelter website is incorrect, and I am misunderstanding it!

noted re private tenancies. A couple are only able to claim for housing benefit for the set rate for one bedroom if in private tenancy, and if the rent is more to make up the difference themselves. I still think it's state subsidy of private property owners though!

The big problem appears to be that there are simply no smaller properties for social housing tenants with spare rooms to move in to. This especially seems to make the policy unfair.

hohum

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

If you read the report you quoted, it specifically mentions social tenants and that taking in lodgers is normally given permission and that much of a lodger's rent is disregarded. Also see

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/lodger-rules-to-ease-impact-of-bedroom-tax/6522846.article

The 'Bedroom Tax' (spare room subsidy) that you are talking about and as in the context of the article, does not affect private tenants.

I went digging again because I found conflicting info with the Shelter website and was confused!

The info is hard to find on this, if you do not deal with it day to day (bet there's some people reading who could give these figures off the top of their head )

Finally found some actual facts and figures from DWP. here is a link (opens a pdf) https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/266626/housing-benefit-factsheet-5-renting-out-spare-room.pdf

It's £20 of a lodger's weekly rent that is disregarded if taking a spare room in social housing. Anything above that is deducted from benefits. I suppose it depends what a lodger is paying as to whether that's 'much' of the income.

seven-day-weekend

I still think there are things most people could do if they can't or won't downsize.

Pay extra rent out of income. Take lodger. Get window cleaning round. Baby sit. Clean cars. Walk dogs. Clean someone else's house.

It really does not take much for an able-bodied person to get an extra £27.

Depth_Charge

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I still think there are things most people could do if they can't or won't downsize.

Pay extra rent out of income. Take lodger. Get window cleaning round. Baby sit. Clean cars. Walk dogs. Clean someone else's house.

It really does not take much for an able-bodied person to get an extra £27.

Hi Seven Day

When you are on basic JSA / ESA £14 & £27 per week is a big percentage of your income.

Depending on full circumstances any extra income has to be declared and this usually means benefit reduction so it can be that people are not really financially better off and cycle is not really broken so to speak.

The truth is many on this level of income are and were struggling before the introduction of the bedroom tax.

There are sometimes problems with housing benefit and other benefits claims / entitlements including required documentational evidence / time limits. This type of thing can quickly get people behind with rent and council tax.

Many have other debts including where deductions are taken direct from their benefits and now with the bedroom tax has made their SOA (financial statement) look pretty nonsensical.

Any slight emergency or domestic appliance breakdown for example and there can be big problems.Health and safety can be compromised

DHP is there as a safety net but even if it is awarded (and I could spend all night just on this controversial subject) it may not be a long term solution.

People have got into debt foe the first time due to the bedroom tax with some of the most vulnerable not understanding / acting fast enough when the changes came in (this also includes c.tax changes)

People have used payday lenders to stem the gap but this as we know is almost always false economy and there starts the spiral.

There is no easy answer I am afraid with some landlords going for the ultimate possession / eviction.

Its not nice at all when its someones home (in many cases their home for years) its their stability, friends, children, school and more.

There is often no alternative housing or if there is then the finances are not much different or worse not to mention the upheaval costs.

The bedroom tax has not helped or been proven to cost effective and measuring the suffering can never be properly counted.

The bedroom tax is an ill thought out vindictive policy that should never have been introduced in the first place or at least scrapped a short while later.

If there has to be cuts then there could be better policy than the wretched bedroom tax.

The reality is that the bedroom tax has, is and will cause misery, stress and expense for a very long time

People (including the most vulnerable) often find it hard to get advice and support as companies and certain agencies dont tend to dabble to deep if there is not any financial interest for them (maybe it is the wrong kind of debt enquiry)

Going back to your basic point - you are right in a sense that people have to manage, they have to find a way and many by are by various means but it is basically living from one crisis to another with no long term stability which is not an answer in my opinion.

No easy answers the way it currently stands

Im speaking as a very experienced adviser who has dealt with bedroom tax cases right up to court level & beyond (and still doing so) with nothing to gain on the political side.

Hope you & others appreciate my points

My take as always

DC

seven-day-weekend

Depth_Charge wrote: »

Hi Seven Day

When you are on basic JSA / ESA £14 & £27 per week is a big percentage of your income. I agree if they are just on the basic, but there are many who are not just on the basic by the time they have other allowances.

Depending on full circumstances any income has to be declared and this usually means benefit reduction so it can be that people are not really financially better off and cycle is not really broken so to speak.

The truth is many on this level of income are and were struggling before the introduction of the bedroom tax.

There are sometimes problems with housing benefit and other benefits claims / entitlements including required documentational evidence / time limits. This type of thing can quickly get people behind with rent and council tax.

Many have other debts including where deductions are taken direct from their benefits and the bedroom tax have made their SOA (financial statement) look pretty nonsensical.

Any slight emergency or domestic appliance breakdown for example and there can be big problems.Health and safety can be compromised

DHP is there as a safety net but even if it is awarded (and I could spend all day just in this contraversial subject) it may not be a long term solution.

People have got into debt foe the first time due to the bedroom tax with some of the most vulnerable not understanding / acting fast enough when the changes came in (this also includes c.tax changes)

People have used payday lenders to stem the gap but this as we know is almost always false economy and there starts the spiral.

There is no easy answer I am afraid with some landlords going for the ultimate possession / eviction.

Its not nice at all when its someones home (in many cases their home for years) its their stability, friends, children, school and more.

There is often no alternative housing or if there is then the finances are not much different or worse not to mention the upheaval costs.

The bedroom tax has not helped or been proven to cost effective and measuring the suffering can never be properly counted.

The bedroom tax is an ill thought out vindictive policy that should never have been introduced in the first place or at least scrapped a short while later.

If there has to be cuts then there could be better policy than the wretched bedroom tax.

The reality is that the bedroom tax has, is and will cause misery, stress and expense for a very long time

People (including the most vulnerable) often find it hard to get advice and support as companies and certain agencies dont dabble to deep if there is not any financial interest for them

Going back to your basic point - you are right in a sense that people have to manage, they have to find a way and many are but it is basically living from one crisis to another which is not an answer in my opinion.

No easy answers the way it currently stands

Im speaking as a very experienced adviser who has dealt with bedroom tax cases right up to court level & beyond (and still doing) with nothing to gain on the political side.

Hope you & others appreciate my points

My take as always

DC

Thanks for your sensitively written post, Depth Charge. Please see my comment in blue above.

I appreciate it's not easy, but in the end it has to be paid so surely it is better to try to find a way of paying it, rather than get into debt? I know that the money has to be declared, but surely every little extra helps? Are they not allowed to keep £20?

Upsidedown_Bear

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

Thanks for your sensitively written post, Depth Charge. Please see my comment in blue above.

I appreciate it's not easy, but in the end it has to be paid so surely it is better to try to find a way of paying it, rather than get into debt? I know that the money has to be declared, but surely every little extra helps? Are they not allowed to keep £20?

Single people can earn £5 per week before it affects JSA. Couples £10.
Some groups can earn £20:
http://www.welfarerights.net/benefits-guides/Jobseekers-Allowance

Depth_Charge

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

Thanks for your sensitively written post, Depth Charge. Please see my comment in blue above.

I appreciate it's not easy, but in the end it has to be paid so surely it is better to try to find a way of paying it, rather than get into debt? I know that the money has to be declared, but surely every little extra helps? Are they not allowed to keep £20?

Hi Seven Day

No problem

Very true, every little helps with these type of situations

As you have seen Upsidedown Bear has kindly provided info & link on the earning limits.

Cheers for the posts

DC

KrazyKel

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I still think there are things most people could do if they can't or won't downsize.

Pay extra rent out of income. Take lodger. Get window cleaning round. Baby sit. Clean cars. Walk dogs. Clean someone else's house.

It really does not take much for an able-bodied person to get an extra £27.

I ended up with a large benefit overpayment by earning any more than I did...
I get housing benefit and currently pay the bedroom tax
But for every extra £1 I earn, I lose 85p in the £1 in housing and council tax benefit.
Plus will have an effect on my tax credits too...

Growurown

hohum wrote: »

It's £20 of a lodger's weekly rent that is disregarded if taking a spare room in social housing. Anything above that is deducted from benefits. I suppose it depends what a lodger is paying as to whether that's 'much' of the income.

That's if the lodger coughs up. I know a lady who took in a male lodger and he didn't pay. He intimidated her so she was too scared to ask for her money, and then the job centre decided that because he was male and she was female they must be living together and stopped her money altogether.

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I still think there are things most people could do if they can't or won't downsize.

Pay extra rent out of income. Take lodger. Get window cleaning round. Baby sit. Clean cars. Walk dogs. Clean someone else's house.

It really does not take much for an able-bodied person to get an extra £27.

What about the disabled they are subject to this extra charge too?

seven-day-weekend

Growurown wrote: »

That's if the lodger coughs up. I know a lady who took in a male lodger and he didn't pay. He intimidated her so she was too scared to ask for her money, and then the job centre decided that because he was male and she was female they must be living together and stopped her money altogether.



What about the disabled they are subject to this extra charge too?

They shouldn't be if they need the extra room or it is adapted.

As for the able-bodied/minded, there are,as I say, many things they can do including getting a job. Otherwise they are stuck in the same situation for evermore. Just think outside the box and take control a bit rather than just going belly-up.