Natwest Front Loaded PPI for several loans.

dazza12

Regarding the DSAR that you plan to put in, RBS/Natwest are very inconsistent at their responses and will not comply with the 40 day timescale. They'll do it in their own time and nothing will hurry them.

I'm preparing a complaint to the ICO at the moment about the lack of information that they've supplied to me. Apparently what they've given to me is all they hold on me. After a few short telephone calls, and a visit to the branch it's clear that a lot more information is held on me, and going back to the late 1980s is accessible (as demonstrated to me by the PPI helpline). Even recent data wasn't supplied to me such as transaction data or notes - despite giving them full details of the account I've had with them since 1986 and use daily. Even their credit card section have difficulty reading letters - despite giving my credit card number they apparently can't locate an account for me as I didn't apparently advise them of my account number, but completely forgetting this a week prior when they sent a batch of statements to me.

It's also possible that the data you'll get is inconsistent. I got 3 letters from Natwest detailing loans I have had with them. Letter 1 listed 2 loans, Letter 2 listed only 1, and Letter 3 listed all 3, but listed the oldest as having no PPI - despite there being a £400 difference between the loan amount and what was drawn.

IJM

As you will probably know, back in the late '80s early '90s, Natwest didn't generally disclose the loan account numbers to customers, because the loans were supposedly linked to your current account and as far as I'm aware you couldn't get a loan without having a current account. You didn't get any statements for your loan accounts. The only time you potentially got to see sight of the loan account number is if you made an overpayment and if they happened to give you a receipt or something with the loan account number written on it.

The other little wrinkle is that the PPI Premium was paid behind the scenes and only the base amount you were borrowing got paid into your current account. Sometime between 1991 and 1993, this changed, and they started depositing the total amount borrowed into your current account and then the PPI Premium was taken from your current account on more or less the same day.

So there you are: a wee pocket history of how Natwest conducted their Personal Loan business in the late 80's and early '90s.

IJM

Update: my acceptance of the first PPI refund for what I call Loan3 has been processed and £630 has been deposited in my account. :dance::dance:

I haven't yet received written acknowledgement of the complaints that are still being investigated (Loans 4, 5 & 6).

I've composed a draft letter with which to respond about Loan2 which I need to get proof read by someone (ideally someone here). It's a bit long though, I think I'll have to cut it down a bit anyway.

And I need to do a DSAR to try to find a loan account number for Loan1 which is from way back in 1988.

IJM

Actually, the only successful claim so far is against a loan from 1993, and that was only because it was an auto-payout (I presume).

My 1994 loan is still under investigation, though I do expect a payout on that one.

It's the older ones I'm struggling with so far.

My 1988 loan: they say they can't find the loan account number and have instructed me to do a DSAR. This is DESPITE my providing a copy of my loan agreement, my PPI certificate and my current account statements. I need to send a DSAR and try to discover the loan account number and any other data. That said, I think if I persisted with my documentation, I could eventually secure a payout, especially if I ended up going via FOS.

I also have a loan from 1991. Same deal. I have all the documentation: agreement, certificate and statements. But for this one I actually HAVE the account number. They still decided not to uphold it saying they couldn't find a PPI associated with this loan. For this one, I am resending copies of all my documentation including a covering letter outlining all the documents and pointing out all the key pieces of information that prove I had the PPI. Once again, I expect them to eventually payout, especially if I'm forced to go via FOS.

If I had to guess how the RBS PPI team are working, I reckon they do a kind of triage. I'd say they do a quick superficial search and decide quickly which ones they can reject out of hand and those they can process and pay within the 8 weeks. Any that are going to take some work to investigate are bounced in the hope that the complainant will give up. When the complainant persists they re-open the case, but then the 8 week limit no longer applies, so they can take their time. Of course, this is guesswork and speculation, but if I was run off my feet with a massive volume of PPI complaints and limited staff, I might find a way to manage them while still falling within FSA rules.

The crucial difference between your situation, sun73, and mine is that I have all my original documentation which proves that I had the PPI even if RBS/Natwest don't have/can't find the records.

The underwriters listed on my 1988 PPI certificate are "London and Edinburgh Insurance Company Limited" and "London and Edinburgh Life Assurance Company Limited".

IJM

Ok. Update time.

I have been somewhat lax and hadn't yet followed up with the DSAR for my 1988 loan. Nor had I followed up the rejected complaint for the 1991 loan.

Anyway couple of weeks ago I got a phone call from RBS's PPI Concerns Team. The lass I was speaking to was investigating my 1994 loan and asked a few questions about the sale with a view to processing it. While she was on, we started talking about my other two loans (loan1 from 1988 and loan2 from 1991). I pointed out the additional paperwork I had sent (loan agreement, PPI certificate & statements). She said that I didn't need to do the DSAR as I had provided enough information. She also said the rejected one had enough supporting documentation too. She said she would refer both these two loans for investigation.

This weekend I received offers for the PPI on all these loans. Loan1 (1988) they are offering around £300. Loan2 (1991) they are offering £1600. And loan4 (1994) they are offering £4500.

I was slightly disappointed with the offer for loan4 (I was expecting it to be £3-4k more), but having read the letter properly they explained that the single premium PPI was inappropriate and have calculated how much a regular premium would have cost me (per FSA rules) and have redressed me the difference with interest. It makes sense, so I'm going to accept the offer.

So I've managed to recover roughly £7000 in total. :beer:

Also, a word about RBS's PPI people on the phone: on all the occasions I have spoken to them I have found them very helpful and pleasant to deal with. I know some may not have had the same good experience, but I did, and thought it worth mentioning.

IJM

Well here's an interesting twist. For one of my loans Natwest offered me and I accepted an offer of over £300 (good will, no admission of liabilty, blah blah). However, they have only paid me a bit over £250 (a tad over £50 short).

I've spoken to them on the phone and apparently they decided their calculations were wrong. However, instead of following the normal procedure of rejecting the acceptance and making a new offer, they just unilaterally paid me the reduced amount without any notification whatsoever,

Now on the one hand I understand that in principle that £50 isn't mine to have. But on the other hand they haven't followed the procedure they should have and therefore I have not been afforded the opportunity to accept or reject their revised offer. I suspect I'm not going to get anything other than a written letter of explanation.

So what do you think? Does their payment represent an acceptance of my signed acceptance of the offer and should they be obliged to make it up to the amount offered?

IJM

Update: After my phone call (mentioned above) querying the reduced payment of one of my redresses, all I expected to receive from Natwest/RBS was a letter explaining the reduced payment and more or less telling me that that was that. However, I didn't get a letter of any kind.

Instead, after a few weeks, they transferred the £250-odd sum out of my account and transferred in the £300-odd amount that they originally offered. After recovering around £7000, I wasn't going to pursue that extra £50 if all they'd done was to confirm their miscalculation. So it was completely unexpected to get it and I'm totally surprised.