chi running

Fire_Fox

gleek1 wrote: »

Listen to Fire fox - great advice! The compression sleeve will only mask symptoms - you will be doing more damage and so will be out for longer.

I would def get a foam roller - do you have recommendation Firefox? I currently have this http://www.marathonsports.com/products/thera-roll. Do you think that this is too harsh? I have not tried it on my shins - but I do love a good massage up them!! It is very tough - tougher than the grid , but I just go easy and relax into it whilst putting my bodyweight down!

I also totally argree with the deep core work - that is probably the single best thing I have ever done for my running.

Keep it up eletan - don't get despondent at the first sign of injury you can do loads of core work with shin splints!!

If you foam roll shin splints you'd want something on the softer end, I was thinking more of releasing any trigger points in the soleus and/ or gastroc (calf) and/ or peroneals and/ or musculature higher up the leg, depending what a movement assessment throws up. People often use handheld gadgets for the tibialis (front/ outer shin) so they can easily manage the pressure on a small muscle group or inflamed area. But you can use a large foam roller, just be gentle: you will likely already know the difference between releasing a real knot and plain bruising yourself!

TBH I just have clients buy any basic foam roller they can source cheaply, it means they are more likely to get started right away! I obviously teach technique over a couple of sessions but I can't see the point in 'supervising' thereafter. I haven't used one of the ridged rollers, perhaps I should get one. Are you doing locate a trigger point (knot) and apply static pressure or roll back and forth across it? Both are valid techniques, wonder if the ridged roller is better suited to one?

Have you ever rolled the IT band/ lateral quad (outer thigh down to knee) area? Now THAT is painful, far worse than calves for most ladies. :eek: Be very careful if you SMR the peroneal area, I gave myself a limp/ dead foot for an hour by overdoing it once, I guess I compressed the nerve.

andygb

I have had a quick look at the 5 fingers shoes in a local place, and to be honest, even when I was a light 70K I would not have been able to use them on the road, I reckon that my old minimalist Adiracers had more support and cushioning and they gave me shin splints.
If you are starting out, then support and control are imperative, because as Gleek says, this is a gradual business, you cannot simply take up running and then start pounding the roads, the best routes would incolve parks, woodland paths or beaches.

gleek1

FireFox - re the roller. I use a mixture of techniques. Sometimes I can feel one bit that is worse than the rest - for that i use a static release. For general self-massage I tend to roll. I have tried the grid - another solid one as well - and the shaped one is very different. I like the both but I think that the grid is a bit easier. As expected, with the moulded one you don't get such a smooth roll when rolling but boy is it good!!! When I am really tender it is a bit painful for me to use it statically as i think all your weight is going through a very small edge. I tend to use a tennis ball for static release these days.

Ahhh from the hip to the knee - it is painful!! I have really bad biomechanics though - quite a severe lordosis, very tight hamstrings, tight hip flexors very weak glutes, shortened calves....

To be honest, when I am sore, the only thing that works is a proper massage. The roller is good maintenance, but at the moment certainly I need some intervention!!

elantan

Hi all,

thanks for the info will be reading it and absorbing it, i have been working today so have just got to see the posts, the pain i am feeling is mainly on my left leg on the inside of my shin just where the bone meets the muscle, it goes down the length of my leg, to let you understand as well, although i am fat i am kinda muscley, particularly my calves, which have always been muscley due to hillwalking,rock climbing ( i had to give up due to car accident) being active etc, the best way i can describe this pain is it's like the muscle is braking away from the bone, as if the muscle is too heavy for the bone.

i do have a foam roller that i bought for yoga, but it hink it may be too hard, when i have had a build up of lactic acid before i have used a foam roller but it is a painful experience i must admit, i am a massage thereapist ( amongst other things) so do use aromatherpay oils etc and self massage when they are sore, but it doesnt seem to help this pain, it was feeling great until i tried to run the other day on concrete

i am trying to decide whether to do my treadmill running tonight or not

elantan

Fire_Fox wrote: »

If you have had shin pain today you really should be resting until this is healed and sadly this can be weeks or months, you are unlikely to 'get used to it' by running on an injury. Definitely don't do any pavement or road running,can i run on the treadmill? it's very tough on the body and completely unnatural to run on such a hard surface. Grass and sand are softer. Also be very cautious with hills - up or down sadly i live on a hill, but i wont be running on it, just walking up and down the hill .

Are you warming up thoroughly, ten full minutes of low impact (walking or elliptical trainer) before you do any jogging at all? no i am not doing that much, what i am doing it things like side stepping jumping jacks and approx 7 mins at a walking pace on the treadmill, is this not right? should i be doing something else? And what sort of flexibility work are you doing truthfully none, i didnt know i would have to think about felxability work, what kind've work should i be doing? i am very unflexible to be honest very stiff etc, have you had a full body movement or posture assessment at the gym? no i havnt, i did go for 6 months to a personal trainer and he never mentioned anything like this to me ? You won't be able to change your running style to a balanced one if you have knots/ trigger points/ muscle imbalances.

Where are the shin splits, front or inside or both? Have you ever been taught self myofascial release (foam rolling)? i havnt been taught it but i have been sitting on the floor rolling the foam under neath my calves, this hasnt helped my shin pain at all, and i found it quite painful for my calves tbh This is quite time consuming and uncomfortable/ painful but could be the ideal thing to do when working shifts. Have you been doing deep core or balance work, or mainly superficial abdominals (crunches)? again no i havnt

It wouldn't do any harm to go to another running shop and check you have been sold the right shoes - although I don't think that is the most likely cause. It did happen to me when I was new to running, long before I was qualified, I was sold motion control for only a moderate overpronation.

If you do film anything also film a series of overhead squats from all four sides. No shoes, no weights, limited amount of clothing or tight stuff so you can see your hips, knees, spine and feet clearly. I have clients in fitted t-shirts or vest tops, not too baggy shorts or gym trousers with the legs rolled up.

this post basically has let me know i need to start from the very beginning as what i have been doing it very wrong and not good for me at all

elantan

gleek1 wrote: »

Listen to Fire fox - great advice! The compression sleeve will only mask symptoms - you will be doing more damage and so will be out for longer. i agree i have been finding the compression socks have helped me not feel any pain but that is not the answer

I would def get a foam roller - do you have recommendation Firefox? I currently have this http://www.marathonsports.com/products/thera-roll. Do you think that this is too harsh? I have not tried it on my shins - but I do love a good massage up them!! It is very tough - tougher than the grid , but I just go easy and relax into it whilst putting my bodyweight down!

I also totally argree with the deep core work - that is probably the single best thing I have ever done for my running.

Keep it up eletan - don't get despondent at the first sign of injury you can do loads of core work with shin splints!!

i need to do core work i think

elantan

Fire_Fox wrote: »

If you foam roll shin splints you'd want something on the softer end, I was thinking more of releasing any trigger points in the soleus and/ or gastroc (calf) and/ or peroneals and/ or musculature higher up the leg, depending what a movement assessment throws up. People often use handheld gadgets for the tibialis (front/ outer shin) so they can easily manage the pressure on a small muscle group or inflamed area. But you can use a large foam roller, just be gentle: you will likely already know the difference between releasing a real knot and plain bruising yourself!

TBH I just have clients buy any basic foam roller they can source cheaply, it means they are more likely to get started right away! I obviously teach technique over a couple of sessions but I can't see the point in 'supervising' thereafter. I haven't used one of the ridged rollers, perhaps I should get one. Are you doing locate a trigger point (knot) and apply static pressure or roll back and forth across it? Both are valid techniques, wonder if the ridged roller is better suited to one?

Have you ever rolled the IT band/ lateral quad (outer thigh down to knee) area? Now THAT is painful, far worse than calves for most ladies. :eek: Be very careful if you SMR the peroneal area, I gave myself a limp/ dead foot for an hour by overdoing it once, I guess I compressed the nerve.

can i be honest this confused me alot ... i dont understand much of what you are saying here, what is an IT band? lateral quad, what is SMR the peroneal area?

i can see i have alot to learn

elantan

andygb wrote: »

I have had a quick look at the 5 fingers shoes in a local place, and to be honest, even when I was a light 70K I would not have been able to use them on the road, I reckon that my old minimalist Adiracers had more support and cushioning and they gave me shin splints.
If you are starting out, then support and control are imperative, because as Gleek says, this is a gradual business, you cannot simply take up running and then start pounding the roads, the best routes would incolve parks, woodland paths or beaches.

thanks Andy will leave the five fingers till i am much better

elantan

ok i have a plea, could someone please teach me what to do? maybe Firefox and Gleek ... if you dont feel you want to then it's fine, but from what i have read i am doing everything wrong, and i really dont want to do things wrong, i want to get back to running and do it in a very healthy way, ii do need to loose weight and i know this and am working towards it, but for mr the running isnt for weight loss, its for enjoyment, and if i land up carrying on the way i am i will soon loose the enjoyment from it

please help me .. i think i need the dummies guide

thanks

el

Fire_Fox

elantan wrote: »

can i be honest this confused me alot ... i dont understand much of what you are saying here, what is an IT band? lateral quad, what is SMR the peroneal area?

i can see i have alot to learn

Sorry I assumed Gleek had some knowledge. Quads are the large muscles at the front of the thigh, lateral is outer edge, medial is inner edge. Peroneals are a tiny muscle group running from the outside of the knee down towards the ankle. IT (iliotibial) band is a thick strip of connective tissue running from the outer hip down to the outer knee.

SMR is self myofascial release, or foam rolling/ self massaging the trigger points (knots) to release them. Instead of the muscle fibres all lying in a neat line so they can extend and stretch as you move sometimes they sort of cramp and knot up, deep massaging 'tricks' the body into thinking it is being stretched and the nerves tell the muscle fibres to relax. You can need to press on a trigger point for an extended period before it releases. People don't always know they are tight or have knots because it is not necessarily painful, my favourite 'trick' is to do one calf and have them walk around EVERYONE is totally blown away by how different the two feel.

Have a look at some leg musculature diagrams online, you don't have to memorise it or anything but it is helpful to keep looking back on every time you get confused because what we would colloquially describe as one are (eg. calf) is actually two muscle groups with different actions and different 'treatments'.

Some people do teach themselves SMR with trial and error but it's honestly very helpful to have a professional do a movement assessment and teach you the positions and what it is supposed to feel like. SMR can be very painful if the knots are bad, a totally different pain to any other, sometimes it can even start to feel like cramp.

I will say tho don't confuse trigger points with DOMS (Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness, you are describing this as lactic acid build up but it's not that simple the lactic acid clears quite quickly after exercise) or shin splits, the pain in both cases will be due to inflammation so you don't want to be viciously massaging and worsening the inflammation. If you have DOMS - perfectly normal when you start a new regime not a chronic injury like shin splints - you should rest or only do very light activity (eg. walking) until you recover, that is your body telling you that you have overdone things.