got a bus lane fine, any way to delay repayment until later date

londonTiger

Ok I got caught out bad. I admit liability and if I pay immediately I can get away with paying just £65 rather than £130.

I can't afford to pay this right now so I would like to stall the process, put in a rebuttal/demand more information & video footage and buy myself some time until I have some free cash in my account.

I got caught in a bus lane at 9:57pm - I assumed that it would be open. There are lots of bus lanes around the area that are free for us after 7pm. So the only way of knowing for sure if a bus lane is free for normal traffic is if you use these roads on a daily basis and/or have hawk eye vision that you can read 5cm tall lettering from 100yards away.

In any case - yeah I guess that's no excuse and TFL will stand by their decision. Just want to buy time,

Can I make a formal representation, request more evidence etc and reset the 14 day discounted payment from a later date.

Advise please.

jaydeeuk1

Why don't you ask them directly rather than risk a useless reply (like this one) from some fat middle-aged bald bloke smashing himself off to the swimwear section in the littlewoods catalogue whilst sat in his damp Luton bedsit?

londonTiger

hehe nice description, i dont think the tfl staff will be much help to be honest - they'll just follow the procedure to the letter and not do anything different. I suppose if I ask for an extension and get granted it will cost them less in management fees than if I go through the whole charade of filing a representation,

londonTiger

i spoke to tfl and I was told I can get up to 8 weeks extension, if I take the representation route I will have 14 days to pay during the discounted period. If I make a representation it will take 2-3 weeks to process and then I may have another 14 days for discounted period.

I think I can ask for an extension after rejection for the discounted amount. So there's no harm in trying my luck with filing a representation.

dacouch

Bus lanes are not that hard to use, the signs state the times the bus lane operates during.

I use bus lanes whenever they're open and have never received a ticket and I do serious mileage within London.

londonTiger

dacouch wrote: »

Bus lanes are not that hard to use, the signs state the times the bus lane operates during.

I use bus lanes whenever they're open and have never received a ticket and I do serious mileage within London.

I'm fairly competant with bus lanes in my area just outside of central London. I dont ususally drive into central London. But this odd occasion I have and got lost in the myriad of one way roads. As well as the idiots just walk onto the road to cross without looking both ways. I managed to get caught out. I guess you have to use your route a few times and become familair with the road and then after some experience you can start using the bus lanes.

The hours of operation differ greatly and are writting in quite small print. It's not always possible to know when you're allowed to use them. Because the signs are spread out quite far apart. SOmetimes you just see a car on the bus lane and assume that it must be open and then you double take the signs as you pass and think "ohh !!!!". WHich I realise is stilly, a lot of these bus lane jumpers are embassy officials who declare diplomatic immunity to this stuff and dont pay. I rememebr reading that the US embassy owes 50K or 500K in bus lane PCN

dacouch

londonTiger wrote: »

I'm fairly competant with bus lanes in my area just outside of central London. I dont ususally drive into central London. But this odd occasion I have and got lost in the myriad of one way roads. As well as the idiots just walk onto the road to cross without looking both ways. I managed to get caught out. I guess you have to use your route a few times and become familair with the road and then after some experience you can start using the bus lanes.

The hours of operation differ greatly and are writting in quite small print. It's not always possible to know when you're allowed to use them. Because the signs are spread out quite far apart. SOmetimes you just see a car on the bus lane and assume that it must be open and then you double take the signs as you pass and think "ohh !!!!". WHich I realise is stilly, a lot of these bus lane jumpers are embassy officials who declare diplomatic immunity to this stuff and dont pay. I rememebr reading that the US embassy owes 50K or 500K in bus lane PCN

I use bus lanes in all areas of London and parts of the country I'm not familiar with.

The signs are clear enough, if you slow down and get used to looking around you then you will have more than enough time to check the writing on the signs.

If it's outside of normal operating times for a bus line I ensure I take note of the bus lane signs which are at the start and (Normally) after each junction.

I get around London a lot quicker than the people who drive quickly as by not rushing I give myself time to check the signs and get into the correct lanes. You'd be surprised how quickly you get around if you take your time.

I would never use a bus lane I'm not familiar with just because another car's using it, just wait for the next sign and then use it if appropriate.

When you use bus lanes on a regular basis you can soon work out which bus lanes are never open to cars.

The amount of people I've given lifts to who do not realise you can use bus lanes (Depending on the signs). I'm glad so few people understand as I can get to the front of lanes. It's a shame people do not use Bus Lanes when they're open as it gives another lane and reduces congestion

sabretoothtigger

hawk eye vision that you can read 5cm tall lettering from 100yards away

That sounds a fair objection. Bit like a speed bump on a motorway, is it a reasonable expectation to say well there was a sign

Im not sure they will discount the fine if you argue at all. Thats how they get so many fines done, by doubling the punishment for any objections

steve-L

dacouch wrote: »

I use bus lanes in all areas of London and parts of the country I'm not familiar with.

The signs are clear enough, if you slow down and get used to looking around you then you will have more than enough time to check the writing on the signs.

If it's outside of normal operating times for a bus line I ensure I take note of the bus lane signs which are at the start and (Normally) after each junction.

I get around London a lot quicker than the people who drive quickly as by not rushing I give myself time to check the signs and get into the correct lanes. You'd be surprised how quickly you get around if you take your time.

I would never use a bus lane I'm not familiar with just because another car's using it, just wait for the next sign and then use it if appropriate.

When you use bus lanes on a regular basis you can soon work out which bus lanes are never open to cars.

The amount of people I've given lifts to who do not realise you can use bus lanes (Depending on the signs). I'm glad so few people understand as I can get to the front of lanes. It's a shame people do not use Bus Lanes when they're open as it gives another lane and reduces congestion

All power to you......
I have to admit I hate driving in Central London..... and bus lanes are one of the reasons along with as London tiger said... people walking across the road blindly and mainly just my ability to become partially lost unless I am constantly looking.

Partially lost means i know where I am and where I'm meant to be.... but somehow I got in a one way or something that I didn't mean to.

I can honestly say I'm a bit put off by my in-ability to read the tiny signs in the dark (whilst watching for pedestrians and other hazards) and I have better than 20/20 distance vision!
I have driven extensively in Paris, Rome, Mumbai, Bangalore, Tripoli, Cairo, Tunis, Luanda, Kuala Lumpur, Baku ....... (and a whole load of other places and I still hate driving in Central London) and its the cameras I hate.... one mistake and your screwed.

In answer to londontiger.... I have successfully got PCN's from Camden revoked ... on the two occasions I've been dome by bus lanes i paid up... one in Reading and one in Central London round Grays Inn Road. The Central London one I pulled over into a bus lane because a police car with blue lights was coming at me in my lane.... Can't have been in it for more than 5 secs as the police car passed .... still just paid the fine.

Now in that situation I refuse to move .. if a police car, ambulance or fire engine are coming towards me I stop.... if they want to get a PCN for going through the bus lane .. well that's up to them.

I did look into challenging the one in Reading, what i found was they have to prove you are in a designated bus lane.... what I didn't find it what that means (exactly)...



As usual with anything PATAS though it is technicalities you get off on. My own 2x Camden parking PCN's were cancelled .... See the end of the quote in bold
My parking ones I sent two cheques, I enclosed the cheques in a letter and attached with a paper clip, I photographed this and included a photo ..
The letter said basically I was paying the fines in the time UNDER DURESS. I was a council tax payer (Co Tax No. incl. ) simply moving house and the van was being used for loading yet still got a ticket at 02:00 between my trips up/down stairs. I said that they could cash the cheques on the condition they explained how as a council tax payer I could have hired a van and parked. I noted I wished to share this with my MP and News Media.

I got a letter back, both were cancelled on technicalities ... nothing to do with my letter...(my interpretation, its easier to cancel than write the letter)!

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?290879-Bus-Lane-PCN

This pcn has been cancelled after informal reps.
The TFL response did not address all the points I raised and was simply a "we're right and you're wrong" response.
Importantly they failed to respond to my FOI request and the deadline expired. I e-mailed TFL to press that point and also made the point that the close up photo of my car was of it outside the bus lane and therefore of no relevance.
Curiously today I had a phone call from TFL to say that they were sending me the video and further stills. I took the opportunity to have a bit of a chat about stuff and also pointed out that their response was not treating me fairly for two important reasons 1) it didn't address the points I raised and therefore, as adjudicators have said "how can I make a proper decision on whether to appeal in a formal manner" and 2) their letter was dated 16 May and gave me until 30th April to pay the reduced rate and that was in the past.
I said that as far as I was concerned this was clearly an issue that the PATAS adjudicators would not look favourably on.
The guy's response was, let me look into it and call you back.
True to his word he called back in about 15 mins and told me that the PCN has been cancelled.
I then received a nice e-mail explaining that their customer service fell short of what I should expect to receive etc etc.
The thing is, I was very happy with the service I got. I'm not complaining at all. I was so pleased I withdrew my FOI requests.
In all seriousness, there are four key lessons here for me to share:
1) Always make informal reps and do so in detail.
2) Demonstrate that you know your stuff and have done your research.
3)Remember the objective, to have the PCN cancelled, it matters not why they do so just that it is done.
4) The LA in reality doesn't really care one jot about your ticket. So you need to find a reason to make them care, this could be because you make a reasonable and detailed case that is going to be complicated and expensive for them to defend or that it is going to expose them to a defect in their restrictions or enforcement processes.