David Attenborough....

N1AK

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

Population growth is considered exponential I believe whereas growth of availabilty of resources is not.

Find one source that even suggests that human population growth is expected to be exponential. You won't as it's a nonsensical position. You're being hyperbolic, misleading or are misinformed.

The growth rate of the world population has halved in the last 50 years. Yearly births peaked in the 80s have fallen since and are expected to remain stagnant or decrease. Deaths unsuprisingly will increase as the average elderly population level does.

Why make statements like that which are so obviously fault. If you're really uninformed about the subject surely it is better to "remain silent and be thought a fool than speak and remove all doubt" and if you know better then it's pretty pathetic that you need to resort to lying to make your case.

Jegersmart

This point has been discussed many times on here before, in a variety of different threads.

Again, I am disappointed to note that the majority of the posts are off-topic in terms of ongoing personal squabbles and point-scoring.

imho

J

Harry_Boyle

Graham_Devon wrote: »

As for tablets and stuff, yer, I have one. Never used it for anything more than angry birds. Tablets gone in the ebay box, which I never get around to ebaying!

I don't understand how you can rant about consumerism and then admit this. The hypocricy is astonishing.

I don't have a tablet, I don't see the point. My desktop PC is self-built from other people's discards from either friends or ebay - I'm always one or two generations behind the 'cutting edge'.

More than this though, we moved to a village that had a train station and a decent high street so that we could use local shops, without having to drive to out of town supermarkets/malls. We grow food in our garden, we use wood burners that allow a lot of our space and water heating to be carbon neutral. The list goes on.

It seems that I walk your talk.

Perhaps instead of just moaning about something constantly on the internet, you should perhaps do something about it? Talking positive action, even in a small way, can mke a real difference to your own life and attitude even if it makes no difference to the wider world. Still, we've had this discussion before when you moan about petrol prices - you moan but do nothing.

Conrad

homelessskilledworker wrote: »

As for people worrying about the state of the earth, thank God for them I say, and I am grateful that these types are also amongst us.

I'm a life long tree hugger but at the same time I have an optimistic outlook that we can return land back to nature in so many ways, we could even build new land !!!!!!!

At the mo we're a bit selfish and infantile but in time we will look after the Earth better. An example of this was on Newsnight last year where much to everyones surprise the Amazon rainforest is growing in size again.

I hate the fact Indonesia is being turned over to palm oil plantation and that the South China sea is fished out, but I just know Humankind will quite soon reverse those things. We have no choice.

Conrad

DervProf wrote: »

I think we need to really think about the way we behave if we are really going to avoid serious energy shortgage issues in the not too distant future.

Utterly wrong.

As stored sunlight (carbon) depletes we will perfectly well replace the gaps with new means, it really is very simple.

Gaps will always be plugged by gap fillers, we aren't wallowing jellyfish incapable of modelling change.

Jegersmart

Conrad wrote: »

Devon what surprises me about people of your general disposition is that they do not seem to recognise they are repeating what a small section of every generation has said forever. Essentially that something big is around the corner that is going to cull most of us or cause some unprescended catastrophy.

It intrigues me that you don't seem to realise your repeating an age old error.

Do you realise that in 3 million years time another devon will be claiming the very same thing?

The only answer I think you will reach for is that it's different this time. It always is.


Please for example read up on the English Puritan movement. They claimed forever than Europe was about to implode with another black death, an all out world ending war and many more chicken licken scenarios.

Does it not prique your interest that your'e repeating an age old pattern?


The fundament your'e missing is that we are an adaptable species. Just because you cannot imagine those adaptations should not mean you ignore our ability to make vast changes such as growing crops in deserts and on ocean platforms, or synthesising minerals. Always keep in mind how far we've come in 150 years and how drastically different things will be in 100 nyears.

This is a very dangerous view to perpetuate. It is also contradictory. On one side you say that nothing ever changes (people with doomsday saying for many centuries, and "another" Devon in 3 million years saying the same thing) but on the other side you are pinning your hopes on the fact that because the world has changed after all in the last 150 years it will continue to do so in the future. Which is it?

In the last 22 years alone we have burned half the oil that we have found so far. In every calorie of food matter there are around 10 calories of hydrocarbon energy to produce and ship it to you.

I am not saying that a catastrophe will definitely happen in the future, because as you rightly point out things may change - and hopefully will to overcome the energy challenges that we will face. BUT, if we do NOT change then it is inevitable that there will be substantial population reduction on a global scale.

I am not sure what I am most concerned about here, your ability to liken predictions of a possible plague in the medieval times and the clearly factual energy crisis that is unfolding (unless we change things drastically) or the laziness of thinking that goes into it. "Let someone else worry about it..."

J

Jegersmart

Conrad wrote: »

Utterly wrong.

As stored sunlight (carbon) depletes we will perfectly well replace the gaps with new means, it really is very simple.

Gaps will always be plugged by gap fillers, we aren't wallowing jellyfish incapable of modelling change.

hahahaha, this is the laziest bit of posting I have seen for many years.

Lazy, and foolish.

imho

J

Jegersmart

N1AK wrote: »

Find one source that even suggests that human population growth is expected to be exponential. You won't as it's a nonsensical position. You're being hyperbolic, misleading or are misinformed.

The growth rate of the world population has halved in the last 50 years. Yearly births peaked in the 80s have fallen since and are expected to remain stagnant or decrease. Deaths unsuprisingly will increase as the average elderly population level does.

Why make statements like that which are so obviously fault. If you're really uninformed about the subject surely it is better to "remain silent and be thought a fool than speak and remove all doubt" and if you know better then it's pretty pathetic that you need to resort to lying to make your case.

I am not sure it is necessary to be so hostile. You make a good point, growth has been exponential but has peaked (so far) and has now flattened out to around 1.2% or so.

Future energy projections are slightly different to this though.

J

DervProf

Conrad wrote: »

Gaps will always be plugged by gap fillers, we aren't wallowing jellyfish incapable of modelling change.

Ah, it's the old "They will come up with something, they always do".

We really do believe we can do anything, us humans. I look at our behaviour sometimes and we often fail to do the obvious. I believe that one day we will pay the price.

Look at the recent financial crisis. I felt that something bad was going to happen, and I certainly don't claim to have a great understanding of global economics or the banking system. It was very clear to me that the banks were playing a dangerous game. Could it have been avoided ? I say it could and should have been avoided. And because we seem to have "fixed" the problems, I think it gives us an air of invincibility.

Yes, we can model change, but with an increasing population, and dwindling oil reserves, there is a massive gap that will need filling, and a gap that is real, not a balance sheet that can be simply altered or "fiddled".

Harry_Boyle

Jegersmart wrote: »

hahahaha, this is the laziest bit of posting I have seen for many years.

Lazy, and foolish.

imho

J

Jegersmart wrote: »

I am not sure it is necessary to be so hostile.

Indeed.