hasn't dual booting become complicated?

toasterman

Hi guys,
I work in IT, and I know how to do this illegally, but am trying to do it legally. How complicated do everyone make it for me though?

What I want to do is dual boot my new HP Laptop between XP Home and Linux.
I've had many pcs before but never my own laptop (couldn't afford it), and always built my own pcs at home so didn't have this issue.

However, new laptop ahoy, XP Home is preinstalled on the drive and you don't get any partitioning tools.
You don't get a disc with Windows on either.
So I presume I install Windows, accepting the agreement etc. Then I have one drive, full, ntfs formatted with Windows on.
At this point I apparently have to burn my own recovery dvd in case I need to restore the system.

Question is - if I then install Linux, it'll overwrite XP surely?
Running the recovery disc to reinstall XP will overwrite Linux?
The only way I can see to do this is revoke the XP licence, format the thing and repartition it - install XP illegally on one, and Linux on the other?
Or am I being dense.. after a long day of fixing other peoples IT problems?

welshmountingsheep

OK, dual booting - not a major problem.

The VAST majority of linux distros now come with a partitioning tool which will allow you to resize your windows partition(s) to allow you to install Linux on the new partitions (which distro are you planning to use by the way, as this could dictate whether you have a graphical or command line based partition tool?).

Personally, the way I would approach it is as follows :-

1) Accept windows agreement
2) Burn recovery DVD/CD
3) Resize Windows partition with partition tool on Linux installation DVD/CD (ie stop linux installation after re-partitioning)
4) Burn recovery DVD for this set up too
5) restart/fully install Linux


not sure how the new partition size will affect re-installation of Windows - problem is Windows tends to take over all of a disc on installation.

One option, if you can afford it, is to buy a USB HDD and use THAT for your Linux distro, whilst keeping all of the main HDD for Windows. it should be recognised by GRUB or LILO when it installs.


Any other ideas from anyone (PLEASE, some more ideas, as I dont want to be held responsible for messing up toasterman`s new PC!!!)

toasterman

Thanks for that welshmountingsheep.
I think I've been out in the sun too long today.. I've installed Linux loads of times (keep breaking it and don't know how to fix it) and there is an option to resize existing partitions.

I have a live disc for Mandriva Sping 2007 - which has a nice looking interface but a bit too orange. It does have the option to install Compiz during install, and hey presto I have all those poncy Vista effects.

And Kubuntu Feisty.. because it seems to be the big player at the moment. Well Ubuntu is, but I can't stand Gnome...so same os, different GUI.

Either way, I'm starting with installing XP and doing a recovery dvd. If everything goes wrong at some point - at least I can get back to the point it was in when they shipped it to me.

P.S. Quite a good deal on it - Ebuyer have HP Celeron 1.4ghz laptops with 512mb ram for £299 at the moment inc vat. Comes with XP Home so no vista incompatibility to work out, and it won't need a ram upgrade the second it comes out the box. Nice widescreen model with one of the shiny screens too.


Edit: I've just tried the Mandriva Spring 2007 and Kubuntu Feisty live discs on it. Sound supported on both in the live disc. Kubuntu also supports battery monitoring, and the onboard wireless is detected and setup automatically.
This might be the case for Mandriva but I don't know it well enough to know where that would be setup.
Neither support the touchpad on the laptop, but luckily I bought a usb mouse for it anyway.
Same resolution issues I always get - 1025x768 60hz max, if you leave the monitor set to plug and play.
I have one of those versions of Mac Os X that isn't designed for Apple hardware that I might try on it later as well.

Moneymaker

With Apple Mac hardware you can run XP and OSX concurrently using software called "Parallels". You can also run Linux but I'm not sure if its supported by Parallels or if you'll have to reboot into Linux separately.

dps_2

for what its worth i used a second drive and on boot you can choose what to boot from and if all goes awry you can format the drive after a fixmbr command from the recovery console in xp

toasterman

Moneymaker wrote: »

With Apple Mac hardware you can run XP and OSX concurrently using software called "Parallels". You can also run Linux but I'm not sure if its supported by Parallels or if you'll have to reboot into Linux separately.

I know. I know.
The quoted battery life is considerably better on Apple laptops too.
And I like OS X.
Problem is, they are that much more expensive - you can't get a macbook for £299 (what I paid for the HP). In the future, when I've more money to spare, I might switch up.

toasterman

Ok - so I got the laptop, accepted the EULA agreement, uninstalled Norton Internet Security, then followed the instructions to create my recovery DVDs in case I want to restore back to this point.

Then I installed Linux, and used the partitioner to wipe everything, recreating the partitions...it didn't seem to let me resize anything from a Kubuntu live disc. I'd guess this is the same for Ubuntu.

Kubuntu on, I went to reload Windows, but the recovery discs only give me two options.
A) I can select to reformat the drive and remove everything, replacing it all with Windows XP.
or..
I can pick to go into standard recovery mode.. which then takes me into a nice-looking Windows-style gui, which then tells me to click ok and it'll reformat the drive and install Windows.

So using a HP laptop, without borrowing an actual Windows XP CD from someone else (or just using an illegal copy of XP Pro I have lying around) and then going looking for all the drivers, there is no way to create a dual-boot system.

I might do a recovery then see if Mandriva has the functionality to resize partitions without losing everything on them. I'm told Partition Magic might do this - although I don't have that, so I'll need to go looking for that too.

Thanks a lot HP. Nice one. Really helpful. :mad:
What happened to the old days when they gave you an OEM copy of XP and a separate disc for drivers?
It's a bit of a crap start to the enjoyment of getting a laptop, when you switch it on and immediately get told you have to make a full backup to dvd (which takes aaaaages) because HP wanted to save 6p by not putting in a couple of cds

kingmonkey

You should really not have wiped the XP partition. You can resize NTFS partitions.

I suggest re-installing windows XP. Then downloading the latest GNOME partition editor live CD. Resize the partitions. Then install ubuntu.

You always have to install windows first then linux.

toasterman

I don't have much better to do tonight clearly, as I've just emailed the CEO of HP with the suggestion they go back to just providing discs for Windows and Drivers in the box..to save everyone this faffing about.

Ok I'm dual booting so I'm not the norm, but still - no recovery discs in box? Recovery partitions have always been a bad idea - what when the hard drive dies?
Most HP end users I've met don't bother doing the backup at all, and although I work in IT and we get the business when their hard drive dies, I wouldn't wish that additional cost/hassle on anyone.

Here's what I sent to HP in the comments/suggestions:
"Please, please, PLEASE can HP go back to using Windows and drivers cds/dvds?
Today my new HP laptop arrived, I power it on and am immediately told I need to make a full backup to cd/dvd in case of failure.

I've used HP before, and know you're pretty good, but it doesn't exactly inspire confidence in your products being asked to make a backup on bootup. It also ruins the excitement of getting a shiny new laptop when you're told you have to make a dvd backup taking over an hour, before you can use it for anything fun.

I was also planning on dual booting my new laptop to try and teach myself Linux, but I notice now this isn't actually possible.

Here's the sequence I did it in:
1) Accept EULA agreement and setup Windows.
2) Create recovery discs.
3) Reboot, run Linux, repartition (losing windows in process) and get Linux running.
4) Reboot and run recovery disc for windows - whereby the only option I get is to reformat and lose everything, or use standard recovery options. And when I pick standard recovery options, the only option is that of reformatting and losing everything.

As I can't reinstall Windows from the dvds I had to create myself, the only legal way I can have both Windows and Linux on that pc seems to be to either purchase Partition Magic, or borrow an oem copy of xp home from someone else and use the licence on my laptop, with their disc. Then follow that with hunting around on your website for the right drivers for my machine.

It's now quite a simple job made very difficult."

toasterman

kingmonkey wrote: »

You should really not have wiped the XP partition. You can resize NTFS partitions.

I suggest re-installing windows XP. Then downloading the latest GNOME partition editor live CD. Resize the partitions. Then install ubuntu.

You always have to install windows first then linux.

Thats the weird thing. I'm sure when I put Kubuntu on my desktop pc I had an option in the one that says manual, auto, guided..etc.. to resize partitions.
I can't find it on Feisty when I install it on the laptop though - the option seems to be missing?

kingmonkey

I've found that option to resize NTFS partitions to be hit and miss with the shipped version of gparted in some distros.

Easier just to download the GNOME partition editor live cd.