Death of a family member and no will

Ader1

(Not sure if this is in the right area)

A family member has recently died. The problem is, he hadn't made any will. I should say that I'm not the nearest relative; they would be my father and his siblings. There are no arguments or anything like that but I know that one of his siblings is taking the lead. I should say that this happened before a few years ago and this sibling somehow started living quite a wealthy kind of life-style after the last time this happened (the death of another family member). I'm also a little concerned because this sibling took away some numbers found in the deceased's house; apparently they were Premium Bond numbers. He said that he checked them and that they were dormant or worthless. I've no experience of Premium Bonds. Anyway, how can we, other members of the family, ensure that things are being done in a fair and equitable manner? My parents do go along with the sibling to the deceased's house but they don't really know what should be done. Could anybody give some advice please? Thanks.

PS I did mention that I believed this sibling had done this quite a few years ago. Maybe by claiming another deceased person's Premium Bonds or whatever. Is there a way to find out?

If anymore information is needed, I'll try to answer without providing too much in personal information.

Jack_Griffin

Every intestate estate has to be issued with Letters of Administration. There is a register that can be publically accessed which lists the value of the estates covered by "Letters of Administration". This is searchable, you can therefore check the value of the previous will your relative handled and see if it agrees with expectations and amounts paid out to your father.

It is also incumbant upon the person/persons who administered the estate to keep records of how the estate was realised and distributed (from memory) for a period of 7 years. I did a probate recently and form PA97 'Notes to personal applicants' says "You should however keep all reciepts and records".

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/probate/copies-of-grants-wills

More than one administrator can be named on the Letters of Administration, there is nothing to stop your Father from making an independent application, though of course a move like that might result in a family argument.

There is also the option of getting an independant solicitor to handle the work, but that will mean paying someone a fee for what is likely to be a simple administration job.

notanewuser

Premium bonds aren't like lottery tickets - they're never dormant or useless. Even if they never "win" they retain their original purchase price. £30k worth of bonds is always worth £30k.

Sounds like you have a Judas in your midsts.

Jack_Griffin

For premium bonds start at the NS&I website.

http://www.nsandi.com/contact-us-helpful-information-faqs-how-do-i-track-down-unclaimed-or-forgotten-savings

http://www.nsandi.com/files/asset/pdf/Tracing_FORM_vB2.pdf

Ader1

notanewuser wrote: »

Premium bonds aren't like lottery tickets - they're never dormant or useless. Even if they never "win" they retain their original purchase price. £30k worth of bonds is always worth £30k.

Sounds like you have a Judas in your midsts.

Thank you both for your replies. Jack I think that is what they should do ie to get a solicitor to handle the work.

notanewuser,
I knew that to be the case before today ie someobody who isn't actually being honest. But the numbers weren't on actual certificates but the deceased had written them down on a piece of paper. Why would the ceseased do this? Do you get certificates with Premium Bonds? Where would they be? But I don't understand why the deceased would have written the numbers down.....? Would he be able to claim on these? I suppose he would need the death certificate and what else? A letter of Administration? The problem is that my dad doesn't want to cause any argument.

Jack_Griffin

I've got some premium bonds. I have a premium bond holders card with a holders number, its format is 7 digits and one letter. I also have certificates, which show the holders number and a purchase date.

If you want to try and trace the history of premium bonds you'll have to start at NS&I (National Savings and Investments) who are the body responsible for issuing them. Phone them up and tell them what you want to do & they should be able to tell you how to proceed.

In the case of a deceased holder they'll most likely want an original death certificate and identification to prove your relationship with the holder before telling you anything. They'll certainly want a name and address of the holder. If they've been cashed in by someone holding 'letters of administration' then their value should show up on the accounts your relative should have kept.

The maximum investment in premium bonds is £30,000.

Renoir77

In reference to premium bonds as others have said the most you can hold is 30 k. If the holder of the bonds dies they can be held in the estate of the holder for 12 months after death and obviously may win. After 12 months they have to be cashed in and the numbers will no longer exist. The proceeds go to the inheritors. So no real hurry needed to cash them unless the money is needed.

Ader1

Thank you all for your helpful replies.

Ader1

Any advice on any other bank accounts or shares?

BobQ

OP, All Premium Bonds are issued as Certificates that bear the number of the bond or bonds. The form of the certificate has changed over time. The early bonds had a stated value of one pound and so one certificate per bond. Later they introduced minimum numbers of bonds you can buy so most certificates after about 1965 bear a range of numbers (eg PV 100000 to PV 100200). A recent bond could represent 30000 consecutive numbers. The holder's number identifies the owner and from this NS&I can list all the bonds the individual owns. The certificates have no value they can only be encashed by NS&I by the rightlful holder or their executor.

From personal experience those who are intent on being deceitful can volunteer to deal with the estate as perhaps in this case. They are legally obliged to do things in accordance with the Grant of Administration so its difficult to fiddle bank accounts (although not impossible).

Where those volunteering do have a lot of "opportunities" is when searching for valuables. Jewellery, silver cutlery, rare porcelain etc can disappear and be sold later, sometimes cash can be found hidden in the house etc. Unless the deceased has told people the items exist, the beneficieries often do not know about the items or are not sure the items have not been sold or given away years before.

BobQ

Ader1 wrote: »

Any advice on any other bank accounts or shares?

A bank or other financial institition can only transfer the shares or sell them, or pay the proceeds of a bank account to the legal owner of them or to their legal representative.

If the estate is quite small they may pay the money to someone who has a plausible justification (eg a death certificate, a will, proof they are the only heir etc) but will probably ask the recipient to sign a legal document that indemnifies them against fraud. If the deceased has a house or a few thousand in savings this will not apply.

if any significant sum is involved they will want a Grant of Administration which you get by swearing an oath that you will comply with the law. They will only give the deceased's money to the person named on the Grant and if you found evidence that what had been obtained using the Grant was not included in the estate and distributed to the beneficiiaries this would be fraud (and so a criminal offence).