Too Posh to Wash

Savvy_Sue

Good Grief soolin, I hope you put in a complaint about that! Wrong on so many levels ...

SHEILA54

I have visited a few friends and relatives in hospital recently and, with the elderly, have found that their food is left and just removed if they don't eat it. My mother in law was also dehydrated and her fluid chart showed only 1 drink taken during the day. When I got there she was confused but I managed to get her to drink a couple of glasses of squash and 2 of the hospitals meal replacement drinks and she perked up. She had dementia so could get stroppy and may have declined the food anyway.

The nurse, when questioned, told me that they just didn't have time to sit for half an hour with each patient at meals times and spoon feed them as there were too few of them.

I went for a walk around the ward to see how many nurses I could see and there were only 3 visible and they were all busy dealing with drips, catheters and other duties. When I was a nurse, a while ago now, each nurse was responsible for 4 - 6 patients but it seems that there are a lot less nurses to cover now. Is this a reflection of the failing NHS or are there still too many admin staff and not enough carers?

When I was waiting outside with a friend who was smoking I overheard several patients discussing the food. One said that she had ordered an egg salad but, when it came, was given 2 lettuce leaves, half a tomato and 3 slices of cucumber. When she asked about the egg she was told that they had run out :eek: The general consensus was that the food was sparse and inedible. Patients were going to the canteen or shop and paying for food.

It seems to me that a rethink is necessary, on all levels. Would it help if patients made a small daily contribution toward food? After all we need good quality food to heal and mend our bodies and, in Spain, relatives provide their family with food when they go into hospital.

Feeding the elderly patients is a definite problem as the food is all delivered at the same time and, if you have half a ward of elderly patients who are unable to feed themselves then you would need, on average, 16 nurses to sit for half an hour at each meal time.

So, I think that we need either more money to provide more nurses / carers, volunteers to help or family to visit once a day, at meal times, to make sure that 1 meal a day is consumed.

We forget that statistically there are now more people over 65 than under 16 and so there will be more elderly in hospital.

I am now 62 and wonder what the future holds as more of us are living into a ripe old age.

moneyistooshorttomention

I'm one of the ones who simply wouldn't have any family available to help out anyway - so, according to them, it would be down to friends to help me out. Obviously, too they don't seem to have thought of what people would do if they have family - but they are the other side of the country (as is the case with many of us).

I wouldnt dream of imposing on a friend like this - they have their own lives to lead and couldnt just be expected to drop everything in order to be an unpaid auxiliary nurse to me.

In reverse - I would be scared to visit anyone in hospital in case I got dragooned into "helping" whether I liked it or no. I'd be okay about helping someone to eat their meal - but I draw the line at any "intimate" care (like taking people to the toilet, etc). I'm just far too squeamish for anything like that. Some people wouldnt be - but a lot of us are. I am thinking right now of a particular friend I have that is twice the size of me and thinking "So the NHS might expect me to help this hefty great woman to the loo:eek: and then wipe her backside:eek::eek:". No chance!

My worry would be that people who had to rely on friends to fulfil these unpaid auxiliary nurse roles would land up not getting any visitors at all - as the friends would often be scared of very much the same things.

The role of a visitor is to chat/bring in "goodies" (fruit, magazines, etc) and act as an advocate for the patient (ie complaining if they arent being treated well enough). It might be stretched a point to include helping them eat meals (IF the visitor is there anyway...ie no having to come in specially). It is not to wipe backsides or have to come in several times daily just in order to make sure they are fed.

Okay for the report writers I guess - just throw money at the problem and employ a private nurse to come in and do the NHS' job for them. But most of us don't have enough money to be able to pay for things like this.

teajug

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

I'm one of the ones who simply wouldn't have any family available to help out anyway - so, according to them, it would be down to friends to help me out. Obviously, too they don't seem to have thought of what people would do if they have family - but they are the other side of the country (as is the case with many of us).

I wouldnt dream of imposing on a friend like this - they have their own lives to lead and couldnt just be expected to drop everything in order to be an unpaid auxiliary nurse to me.

In reverse - I would be scared to visit anyone in hospital in case I got dragooned into "helping" whether I liked it or no. I'd be okay about helping someone to eat their meal - but I draw the line at any "intimate" care (like taking people to the toilet, etc). I'm just far too squeamish for anything like that. Some people wouldnt be - but a lot of us are. I am thinking right now of a particular friend I have that is twice the size of me and thinking "So the NHS might expect me to help this hefty great woman to the loo:eek: and then wipe her backside:eek::eek:". No chance!

My worry would be that people who had to rely on friends to fulfil these unpaid auxiliary nurse roles would land up not getting any visitors at all - as the friends would often be scared of very much the same things.

The role of a visitor is to chat/bring in "goodies" (fruit, magazines, etc) and act as an advocate for the patient (ie complaining if they arent being treated well enough). It might be stretched a point to include helping them eat meals (IF the visitor is there anyway...ie no having to come in specially). It is not to wipe backsides or have to come in several times daily just in order to make sure they are fed.

Okay for the report writers I guess - just throw money at the problem and employ a private nurse to come in and do the NHS' job for them. But most of us don't have enough money to be able to pay for things like this.

The NHS is paying agency nurses £1600 a day for their services, no wonder they feel too posh to wash their patients or take them to the loo. Also when they can get that amount of money for agency work which is flexible and all the holiday as well as sick leave as agency workers have the same rights a permanent employees, they do not want to work on a permanent contract for NHS.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9400079/NHS-pays-1600-a-day-for-nurses-as-agency-use-soars.html#


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-512063/NHS-paying-120-hour-agency-workers-plug-hospital-staffing-gaps.html


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1104468/NHS-squanders-millions-agency-staff--nurses-earning-128-HOUR.html

mumps

Reminds me of when my son was in hospital, he was 5 and distressed and I didn't leave at the end of the day. I was told to leave and declined. I was told they were phoning the local police station, I laughed and said go ahead, if they can find a PC to attend I would be surprised and if he did attend I would be amazed if he would be prepared to arrest a mother sitting quietly at her child's bed. They left me alone.

dawyldthing

I'm surprised they don't employ more health care workers in hospital as i'm a support worker (do a similar job but in the community) and pretty much help people access the community, but in a hospital based role they could help feed and toilet and stuff and would be about half the cost of a nurse. As for the 1600 a day nurse it doesn't surprise me as I know we have been struggling for staff for a number of months. Although now as there are a lack of people willing to do the job the wages are gradually starting to rise (they are round here anyway)

Finefoot

Wow! I wonder how employers would feel when someones asks for time off to feed Mom and Pops at the hospital 60miles away.
My DH was hospitalised only last week. He is disabled. He begged his doctor to send him home so he could get some care. He was in a side room and was just left there, ignored.
The notes said he was mobile and self caring, because the only time he used the toilet was when I was there, and I brought him his meals.
He is not elderly.

Mrs_Ryan

I work on a dementia care ward as an HCA and we do allow relatives to be involved if they choose - we always ask if they are there at drinks time and their friend/relative needs assistance if they would like to help, if not, no problem, we'll do it, there are some who will help their relative to the loo and other small tasks but we would never, ever expect it - its more than our job is worth and quite frankly I'm thinking why should it be expected??? I know not all wards are as fortunate as mine in terms of staffing but why should a relative or friend be expected to perform intimate care???
I was in hospital in the summer and my parents (both pensioners and both disabled) travelled 200 miles to be with me. Mum is a retired nurse and she was absolutely horrified with some of the things she saw - me less so as working in the profession I know things are very different these days but I was reluctant to accept help from anyone. While I would have been fine with Mum helping me with anything I needed I think hell would have been set loose between the two of us The staff on my ward (with the exception of one nurse) were absolutely brilliant and I cant fault them but it seemed that once they knew my job I was getting treated slightly differently - I suppose its because they knew I would know what they were supposed to be doing and if they did it wrong I would tell them so
As some people quite rightly said, what about those with no family? First time I was in hospital Mum was in hospital herself having a knee replacement and so I only had OH down here and I would have been mortified to have him do my intimate personal care (he's disabled himself)
I read the comment about food with interest - last time I was in hospital I was the envy of the bay as every afternoon visiting time my Mum brought me gorgeous fresh food from the local Tesco - hot chicken legs, pasties, sandwiches, handmade cakes and biscuits from a little local bakery she found, plus I had a table crammed with treats - biscuits, fruit, doughnuts, crisps, plus my own juice and bottled water - she even bought me my favourite cereal to make sure I ate breakfast as I didnt like the cereal they had in the hospital. I have allergies and plus I eat very little meat so without the food my Mum was bringing I likely wouldnt have eaten as the food was lousy and I had virtually no choice as almost everything either had the stuff in im allergic to or I didnt like - I had the same thing every night, tuna salad and I ended up not eating most of that.

Sooetie

Never going to happen

margaretclare

I read the comment about food with interest - last time I was in hospital I was the envy of the bay as every afternoon visiting time my Mum brought me gorgeous fresh food from the local Tesco - hot chicken legs, pasties, sandwiches, handmade cakes and biscuits from a little local bakery she found, plus I had a table crammed with treats - biscuits, fruit, doughnuts, crisps, plus my own juice and bottled water - she even bought me my favourite cereal to make sure I ate breakfast as I didnt like the cereal they had in the hospital. I have allergies and plus I eat very little meat so without the food my Mum was bringing I likely wouldnt have eaten as the food was lousy and I had virtually no choice as almost everything either had the stuff in im allergic to or I didnt like - I had the same thing every night, tuna salad and I ended up not eating most of that.

What people like/don't like is very individual. I couldn't have eaten most of the lovely little treats your Mum brought you! Nor do I eat any form of breakfast cereal. DH and I have sometimes brought each other those boxes of mixed fruit from the M&S petrol station, plus 'fingers' of cheese. And little yogurts. Ice-cubes in a wide-necked vacuum container - why is hospital water never cold enough? - and hard-boiled eggs.

If I were ever to be admitted to an NHS ward again I don't know what I'd eat. No cereal or white bread, which is all you get offered for breakfast. I'm going to be in the local Spire hospital for 2 nights from 22nd February, will see what the food is like there. The worst thing would be, staying in hospital for any length of time. A couple of days, one of which is taken up by surgery, wouldn't be so bad, but longer? The last time I was in an NHS ward I had to claim to be a vegetarian because that was the only way I could get wholemeal bread - everybody else got the white cheapo stuff.