Disciplinary hearing advice please

Sambucus_Nigra

toerag33 wrote: »

Thank-you for all your help. I have just answered DD's mobile to the manager and said she was sleeping. The manager wanted to know if DD had received her text message and would like DD to call back.

What is DD's next step?

Thank-you

What did you say? I'd have asked what the text was for and when he said 'a disciplinary meeting' I'd have said, but surely that would be in a letter, not a text?

Anyway, as it is, her next step would be to attend the meeting. Not much choice really.

jobbingmusician

Can I ask a genuine question?

In these circumstances, if it were me, I would go to the meeting and immediately ask for a copy of their disciplinary policy. Assuming they have a DP which they have breached, which contains no provision for opt out in the probation period/first year/whatever, would they be guilty of wrongful dismissal were they to dismiss the OP?

zzzLazyDaisy

jobbingmusician wrote: »

Can I ask a genuine question?

In these circumstances, if it were me, I would go to the meeting and immediately ask for a copy of their disciplinary policy. Assuming they have a DP which they have breached, which contains no provision for opt out in the probation period/first year/whatever, would they be guilty of wrongful dismissal were they to dismiss the OP?

They'd only be guilty of wrongful dismissal (ie breach of contract) if they fail to pay her notice OR (and I presume this is what you are getting at... if the disciplinary procedure forms part of the contract). Which it almost certainly won't be, as all properly drafted contracts expressly state that the disciplinary procedures are not contractual, for this very reason. The statutory disciplinary procedure was repealed in 2009, and the service requirement was increased in April 2012 from one year to two years.

The net result of which is that the employer can dismiss at anytime within the first two years for any reason or no reason at all (as long as they don't breach the anti-discrimination laws - and they don't have to follow any procedures).

Edit: I think we are going to see a lot more contracts which explicitly state that the disciplinary procedures are not applicable within the first two years, and a return to 'churning' (ie when unskilled staff in NMW jobs are dismissed around 1 year 11 months, and then re-hired a couple of months later, particularly in the hospitality industries where there is a high proportion of female staff.... but isn't that stacking the odds against women... and isn't that sex discrimination?

Google Seymour-Smith.... some of us in the profession have long memories, and a sense of deja vu...

Dx

jobbingmusician

Thanks D xxx (*note to self - must check own contracts to make sure DP doesn't form a part....)

PS Sorry, my post should have said 'first two years' as I did know about this.

dawnybabes

But if he starting time - according to him was 3 then she actually wouldn't ave been late ?

Uncertain

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

Which it almost certainly won't be, as all properly drafted contracts expressly state that the disciplinary procedures are not contractual, for this very reason.

I think that depends on what you mean by "properly"!

I could point you towards one world famous institution with over ten thousand staff. Last time I looked their disciplinary procedures were contractual from day one!

Anyway, getting a bit off topic here.

Even if they were contractual and they don't follow them all that might get the OP's daughter is an extra few days pay for however long it would have taken them to do things properly.

prowla

Anyway, if they are instituting a disciplinary for being 2 minutes late when there is uncertainty of which hour she is supposed to start, then something is on a bit of a wonk there.

honey10

how did it go?