slow drivers

stevemcol

The argument rumbles on and there are some rights and wrongs on both sides.
One thing is clear though, if a driver is intolerant of other road users he/she is a bad driver.

My view... people should drive at a speed with which they feel comfortable and safe. I choose to drive fairly quickly from time to time. I don't hassle slower dirvers, I just overtake when it's safe. Or I hang back and chill out if I'm not in a rush.

If my missus drives much above 50 on a 60 limit B road, I just don't feel safe as a passenger and I want to get out. I know other drivers where I'd be happy to read the paper with them doing 75. We're all different and you can't ban timid drivers from the road.

Dave_C_2

UsernameAlreadyExists wrote: »

What gives you the right to impose/dictate this though? He/she might be in a hurry and not care about his fuel consumption, unlike you.

Nope, I am driving legally and safely and accelerating to the speed limit. Because I am accelerating gently and it it safe to overtake, then I'm not stopping the car behind overtaking. If a car did overtake then I would stop accelerating as per the Highway Code.
There is nothing in the highway code about how fast you have to accelerate, other than accelerating harshly can cause skids.
The point is that I am not driving slowly, just taking a few extra seconds getting to the speed limit.

So you are admitting to policing the road and not considering his clear intention to go faster than you?

As far as I am aware, there is no signal in the highway code meaning "I want to go faster than you".
Please show me the section that says I must accelerate harshly because of cars behind .

However tailgating under any circumstances is a sign of poor driving and is definitely against the highway code.

Dave

steve-L

brat wrote: »

Steve, everyone agrees that erratic driving that goes hand in hand with some slow driving (or fast driving for that matter) has to be dealt with for what it is, and no-one would disagree that it could easily be considered careless/inconsiderate/dangerous.

Erm, I think we agree..... looking back through the posts however I'd say not everyone does!

My wife (42, fit and active) is an OK driver. She's safe and careful, but does not like driving quickly. She is an infrequent driver outside the 30s and for that reason she's cautious at higher speeds. She drives on a clear 60mph 'A' road probably only 10 times a year and she'll do an indicated 45-50, which is probably nearer 42-46 mph. Cars occasionally pass her, but most don't bother, because she's usually only doing 8 miles along the road to the next town, in doing so passing through two villages that are reduced to 40 mph and 30 mph.

Now is that inconsiderate? It might be a tad inconvenient to some motorists who prefer to use the highest permissible speed (or often more), but my wife doesn't have an inconsiderate bone in her body.

Looking at established points of agreement

• A driver driving erratically at speeds varying between 5 and 35 miles per hour, using inappropriate braking, and giving the impression that she was drunk (like the Scottish case) should be prosecuted for careless and inconsiderate driving.
• A driver doing a steady 40 to 45 mph along a clear A road is not going to be prosecuted for inconsiderate driving.

The basic disagreement between us is in personal perception of the gravity of the matter, ie whether you believe that your right to have a free run along an A road should trump another's need to drive a little slower because they are cautious or nervous drivers.

Some of us have other things to worry about, but it clearly does frustrate others.

We don't disagree that much ....
My mum is 72, she frequently drives on NSL as there is no other way to get out of her village.
Depending which direction (town) she heads towards that is either 4 miles or 20+ miles of mainly[/] NSL.

The disagreement (if that's what it is) actually seems to be more about :

you believe that your right to have a free run along an A road should trump another's need to drive a little slower because they are cautious or nervous drivers

because perhaps we have different roads in mind....

If my mum goes on the 20+ NSL it has a few safe passing places,
If she wants to drive at 40 or 45 then I'd say that's perfectly OK so long as she actually then makes some effort when she approaches one to let the queue past. No different to the tractors, milk HGV's, horses .... etc. that also develop queues.

Over the 20 miles on an average day if she lets cars pass every 3-4 miles (when safe to pull in slightly) ... then no huge queue develops... if she doesn't then by the time she gets to the town the queue is 100's of cars, HGV's and whatever else long.

My mum has a 1.2 Corsa automatic! I drive a remapped 330, my brother variously drives Range Rover Sport, Masteratti, AMG SLK... (or a 1972 Fiat 500 or similar age VW camper)

Other than when he is driving his 'antiques' neither of us have any effort to overtake (assuming we are the one BEHIND 'my mum' and not 15 cars back) however based on my experience of Mr & Mrs Miggins ... I hesitate to do so (if it wasn't my mum) because experience has shown my a not inconsiderable percent of Mr&Mrs. Miggins have no idea they even have anyone behind or if they do that the person may wish to continue at the NSL. (and based on my father I'd be terrified to overtake knowing his reaction would be similar to many here... except if he floored it I'd not be able to pass his 6L V12 easily if he decided to play silly bu*****s)

Based on my experience a non trivial percent react noticing your car as you overtake, looking over their right shoulder and drifting right at the same time)....or the other situation seems to occur is you are waiting to pass and they get to a bend that you can see clearly both sides and just as I'm about to pass they decide they need both sides of the road to take the bend.

This uncertainty would be avoided if they met my eyes in their rear view.....
If I know that they know I'm behind and going to pass I'm past in a instant.... and make way for the other 10 cars to also pass....

As it is I sometimes end up being the one pulled along side Mrs. Miggins doing 40 in the NSL with a queue behind me until they somehow acknowledge me, then I pass (at this point probably at way over the NSL so hopefully you're not behind me)

So the real answer, not knowing the roads your wife drives is it depends if she acknowledges the other drivers and better still actually lets them pass when its safe and reasonably convenient for her.

What I think is dreadful driving is when 'convenient' means I will not adjust my driving one iota for people who wish to travel at the NSL.... and those who then justify it saying the speed they were going was the safe speed for everyone.

If it was my mum then I would remind her of what she asked me and my bother to do and tell her that her time for driving has past if/when she can no longer consider how her driving might affect other drivers!

My old (ex)neighbour is 95 and I have driven behind her, much as she has problems parking (or so she says, its really not bad) I have been behind her on a NSL by chance and she has pulled in and indicated..... so even at 95 driving considerately is possible.

ikolpdog_2

Can any maximum speed limit be considered safe in January in the UK? Just because the air temperature is up doesn't mean you wont find Black Ice round the next bend. Meltwater run off on the road can be shockingly deep and appear across an otherwise perfectly dry and safe road. Saltwater spray from a lorry can effectively blind any driver. Tyres are cold and will not grip as well as they do in summer.

If the road is straight enough to spot these dangers it is also safe enough for overtaking. If the road is twisty or has dips & brows then you have to exercise more care at this time of year.

My perception of a safe speed on a particular road may well differ from that of someone else, especially if they are cocooned in a luxurious motor totally isolated from the outside world.

Gilbert2

ikolpdog wrote: »

My perception of a safe speed on a particular road may well differ from that of someone else, especially if they are cocooned in a luxurious motor totally isolated from the outside world.

Yes, but what you consider safe can, at times, mean absolutely nothing, if you are considered driving unnecassarily slow by the law.

If your statment above meant anything then all the old lady in the prosecution I previously posted needed to say was what you say and she would have got away without a conviction!

And we have been talking of driving slow for no good reason, that is the saliant point.

Not about driving approriately safely due to other factors such as adverse weather.

Although this point of the debate seems to be continually ignored on this thread.

stevemcol

SteveL. You are putting a lot of emphasis on whether the slower driver will acknowledge you or let you pass. I've never really found that to be a major concern (unless it's a tractor but that's a whole different story!).
For the type of driver that is completely oblivous to you in their main mirror, they are unlikely to suddenly react as you drive through the blind spot. By the time they have woken up and over reacted, you'll be level with or past their bonnet.
If they're being deliberatly obstructive, it's possible that driving too close behind them has triggered that behaviour.
If they're prone to swerving on approach to a bend...don't overtake on the approach to a bend.

In most cases just hang back a safe distance, make good observations and when it's safe use the full performance available to you and overtake. If you still can't safely pass, it's possible the car in front is actually doing the right speed for the road.

What I find does cause problems is not the car travelling slowly at the front but the car immediately behind who won't overtake when it's safe to do so. That can quickly cause a long queue and without dangerous overtaking by the cars further behind, is difficult to resolve.

These are just my views and I may be wrong. Like most of us (dare I say all?), I am a bad driver, for various reasons.

brat

steve-L wrote: »

Erm, I think we agree..... looking back through the posts however I'd say not everyone does!



The disagreement (if that's what it is) actually seems to be more about :
because perhaps we have different roads in mind....

Like you say, different roads, slightly different viewpoints, neither wrong. Nice to gain a little consensus.

Joe_Horner

stevemcol wrote: »

What I find does cause problems is not the car travelling slowly at the front but the car immediately behind who won't overtake when it's safe to do so. .

And fails to leave enough gap for people to "leapfrog". If you can't // don't want to overtake in such a situation you should be opening the gap so that others can. Sitting at the regulation "bonnet and a half" following distance in that case is far more inconsiderate than simply driving sedately with lots of open road in front!

Interesting point as well about what the "appropriate speed" might be if conditions (traffic/ bends / whatever) are such that you can't pass one slow-ish car safely driving anything even remotely modern

steve-L

stevemcol wrote: »

SteveL. You are putting a lot of emphasis on whether the slower driver will acknowledge you or let you pass. I've never really found that to be a major concern (unless it's a tractor but that's a whole different story!).

I'm not sure it is.... but I'll explain later...

For the type of driver that is completely oblivous to you in their main mirror, they are unlikely to suddenly react as you drive through the blind spot. By the time they have woken up and over reacted, you'll be level with or past their bonnet.

Experience has taught me otherwise.... however given the wide variability of NSL roads, walls vs hedges vs up/down vs flat, roundabouts vs infrequent passing places and the growing white line in the places you could previously pass!

Its happened enough to me as the overtaking driver and as a passenger in Mrs. Miggins car and scared me enough to make me wary...

Now, thinking about it it may not be THAT common but the consequences are scary enough .... the overtaking car is under acceleration (and the more acceleration the more difficult the braking - not just time but where to put the car (hedge, wall, side of other car) if they brake at the same time as accidentally cutting you up)

As I previously stated, I'm closer to 50 than 40 (somewhere in this thread) and also have never ever had a point in 20+ years of driving. I'm certainly not perfect, I certainly exceed posted speed limits sometimes... but I'm not a boy racer despite my car having probably well over 100 extra BHP of the average boy racer.

Hence accelerating hard without knowing they are aware I'm there (and I guess I can do 40 to 70 in not very long at all) means you get past without being next to them long but if they do pull out then your screwed.

If they're being deliberatly obstructive, it's possible that driving too close behind them has triggered that behaviour.

As above.... I really hope that's not me!
Add to above, I often have my kid in the car!

If they're prone to swerving on approach to a bend...don't overtake on the approach to a bend.

Again, Im thinking of a near miss in a certain place.... (in the wide variability of NSL's).... there are certain roads where this is your best visibility, you can see the other side of the road for a decent distance in the other direction and once you past that you know you can't overtake again.
The manoeuvre I'm talking about is they simply feel they need to use both sides of the road (despite the fact even a Micra could get round at 60)...

What I find does cause problems is not the car travelling slowly at the front but the car immediately behind who won't overtake when it's safe to do so. That can quickly cause a long queue and without dangerous overtaking by the cars further behind, is difficult to resolve.

See, that's me.....
You might be behind me thinking "why doesn't the idiot in the bimmer pass that micra?"
I'm not passing because I really do worry that until they acknowledge me I don't know what they are going to do and the last thing I want is to hit the brakes of they do act unpredictably and you hit me from behind!

Like most of us (dare I say all?), I am a bad driver, for various reasons.

Yep and I think we are all a lot safer when we acknowledge WHY we are bad drivers (me, you, Brat and Mrs. Miggins)

I have worked pretty much round the world for the last 20 years and my companies usually make sure i have a minimum of 1 defensive driving course a year for most of this.

I was always told that when overtaking you pull out first THEN accelerate past .... (I'm sure I have been told by various advanced driving instructors that is how the police are told to do it.... of course they might be telling porkies ... no pun intended )

When you do have regular defensive and advanced driving courses you actually learn a lot of your faults.... I was surprised after a year driving an auto I had started to habitually ride the clutch in a manual) .... and essentially you then decide if you want to address what you learned.... clutches being not cheap to replace this is a habit I learned I'd developed and decided to correct!

So be it tractors or HGV's ... I think one major lesson many could learn is driving considerately.... what disturbs me as much as anything are the number of people that basically say "I don't care about other road users" in different ways.

To say our highways are becoming overcrowded is an understatement.... and having driven in various third world capitals where it truly is "every driver for themselves" I see the UK descending into the same unless people can act considerately....

martinthebandit

Norman_Castle wrote: »

I'm confused as what point you think is being proved and what you think the tone of my post implies. Please enlighten me.

OK, but your not going to like it.

If you look at your posts you have a tendancy to make assumptions, and all of your assumptions seem to put anyone you are disagreeing with in a negative light, then you continue and expand your comments based on those negative assumptions and not, usually on what a particular poster has said.

Very much similar to those drivers who drive slowly and appear to think that anyone who wants to drive at, or close to the speed limit is somehow at fault.