Suspended During Grievance

zzzLazyDaisy

kelly_borntoshop wrote: »

i know its standard but the "cannot be under offer of another job whilst signing this agreement" i am not exstatic about.

We can talk to them about dropping that

and should there be a clause stating i can never go back to the company? not happy about that either because if FM takes over when CD retires, which is a big possibility, he may or MD may ask me back...

*if* the company wanted you to go back, they would release you from that condition

Dx .

kelly_borntoshop

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

I think I may have missed something here. Have they already given you a copy of the compromise agreement that you would be expected to sign?

Re signing away the right to take them to court/tribunal - that is the point of a Compromise Agreement. If you don't accept that, you may as well forget any thought of doing a deal - it's not going to happen.

No i wasnt given the agreement - however he said they had a template from the internet that was legal.

Happy not to take them to court if you think i am better off this way. Its a big hassle and if i do not agree they will dismiss me anyway? I think they have stronger grounds than me with breach of contract?

they expected me to sign the "contract".

SuzyZ

All this makes much more sense now Kelly.

I would say really that best way to go is to accept the 1 week's notice payment, CA etc and reference - eg do what Uncertain and Daisy says here and not quibble otherwise. I had not read or understood you have a CA in place. Like Daisy etc say if you play it right, stay on etc then you gain extra eg 1 week's pay whilst CA is thrashed out with solicitor. I highly doubt an employment solicitor worth their salt (I know a couple) would advise you to go through the tribunal battle.

There is of course the question of contract, it not being signed so it seems by you and quibbling over the clauses in it, but you'd be hard pressed to get them to agree those points now and I think they'd also say the onus was on YOU at the start to ensure the contract WAS signed by YOU and returned to THEM when you started or were

I really think, for the sake of a few more £££ your health would be at risk and also you'd cause stress to your DH and possibly at home.

Next time you go for any jobs like this also I'd make sure you get contract signed after your probation period. and also get a proper job description and try to ensure it is stuck to, by them and you.

HTH

SuzyZ

kelly_borntoshop wrote: »

4 On the issue of the amount of money they have offered - one thing I would say is that it is a lot more than you would have had a few days ago when you resigned on the spot and walked out.

You also have to compare it to what you might get if you were to refuse their offer and make a claim to an employment tribunal instead; based on what you have told us, if they dismiss you for gross misconduct there is no guarantee that you would be successful at tribunal, and even if you were, there is - in my view - quite a high chance that the tribunal would make a discount for your contributory conduct. For both these reasons I think they are in the right ball park, though calculation of the 'severance payment' isn't an exact science. We can come back and look again at the payment later.

This is most certainly true. Its better than a court case health wise, and i would still be left with a dismissal which is never good.

I looked at some web pages on costs to defend, i am not sure if they are insured for court proceedings in their public liability insurance but i am on my military insurance. because the internet is so reliable, i came up with minimum £2000 to defend and maximum approx. £9000? depending on the complexity.
would i be right in thinking it would be a half day/day job at tribunal?
i guess they have offered me the lowest mark because they think it will be a cut and dry unfair dismissal case? however there are contributing factors?

Full of questions today, sorry :-p

Just out of interest - the figures you've got for a barrister/defence are way off the mark. You'd normally get charged £1,000 or £1,500 depending on what needs to be done, etc... this is for barrister looking through case notes/bundle, ADVISING (most important) on whether to take this to court. of course they will defend for you the barrister.

£9,000 no way.

I really would not bother will gross dismissal claim. but you can always see an employment lawyer outside MSE for free 1 hour appointment - some large firms do this. Not saying anyone else's opinion here is not valid but it's their opinion on a forum.

zzzLazyDaisy

kelly_borntoshop wrote: »

I looked at some web pages on costs to defend

Full of questions today, sorry :-p

I think you are over-thinking this. The issue of what it might cost them to fight a tribunal claim has no bearing on the matter from your point of view. They may be insured, or they may choose to represent themselves, either way it would cost them nothing.

More to the point is what your prospects of success would be if you decided not to sign the CA, and go to tribunal instead.

On that point you should understand is that on the issue of whether the dismissal is fair or unfair - there is no halfway house. It can't be a little bit unfair. So you either win or lose your case. If you win, then if the tribunal takes the view that your conduct contributed to the dismissal, they can reduce the compensation by up to 100%. In other words if you win on a procedural technicality, you could still get no compensation. Those are the risks.

One thing I will say here, though, very clearly:

I cannot advise you how good your case might or might not be. I can't see the papers and I don't know all the facts. So you have to make that decision for yourself. That might mean paying for specialist advice, or getting advice under the military insurance. Either way, ultimately, the responsibility for making the right decision about whether to proceed with the CA or go to tribunal is yours and yours alone.

Sorry to be blunt, but while the posters on here are happy to give our time to help you, there are limitations to what we can do on an internet forum.

kelly_borntoshop

SuzyZ wrote: »

There is of course the question of contract, it not being signed so it seems by you and quibbling over the clauses in it, but you'd be hard pressed to get them to agree those points now and I think they'd also say the onus was on YOU at the start to ensure the contract WAS signed by YOU and returned to THEM when you started or were

HTH

Hi Suzy,

Yes i am beginning to get this now. just trying to determine how i stand its all happened very fast.

i was given the contract yesterday and expected to sign after i asked for written particulars in my grievance. i have had no written particulars until yesterday.

zzzLazyDaisy

SuzyZ wrote: »

There is of course the question of contract, it not being signed so it seems by you and quibbling over the clauses in it, but you'd be hard pressed to get them to agree those points now and I think they'd also say the onus was on YOU at the start to ensure the contract WAS signed by YOU and returned to THEM when you started or were
HTH

Just to be clear Suzy - Kelly was only given the contract yesterday - at the same time as she was told that they want her to sign a compromise agreement.

Dx

Edit - cross posted

kelly_borntoshop

i appreciate that daisy and i really appreciate the advice from the thread, i was sure enough to end up with nothing at all until you guys stepped in. i understand the decision is mine and although you are wonderful this is just a forum and can have no bearing on my decision at all.

is that ok? ;-)

zzzLazyDaisy

kelly_borntoshop wrote: »

i appreciate that daisy and i really appreciate the advice from the thread, i was sure enough to end up with nothing at all until you guys stepped in. i understand the decision is mine and although you are wonderful this is just a forum and can have no bearing on my decision at all.

is that ok? ;-)

Sounds good to me

I am signing off now (strangely I do have a life outside MSE ) but keep posting your questions. Others will be along to add their comments, and I'll check back later. There is no rush to make any decisions right now.

Dx

kelly_borntoshop

Ok Daisy, thanks for this morning. xx