What will Britain look like in 2019 after leaving the EU ?

Dunroamin

Watch the NHS and social services buckle as thousands of ex pat pensioners return to the UK from retirement in other EU countries.

GeorgeHowell

Dunroamin wrote: »

Watch the NHS and social services buckle as thousands of ex pat pensioners return to the UK from retirement in other EU countries.

Freedom of movement remember -- they have as much right to come home and use the public facilities as the hordes of Romanians and Bulgarians that we are being primed to expect.

Wookster

vivatifosi wrote: »

I dunno Wookster. I am marginally more in favour of staying in because I'm concerned about what will happen if we leave. It doesn't make me pro-Europe in a cheerleader sense. I've already mentioned what my concerns are elsewhere re foreign direct investment and these are finely balanced.

It's finely balanced, agreed however I'd opt to leave. We have a bunch of Socialists, determined to drag everyone down to their level rather than rather than raise their game.

The fact that the EC cannot prepare audited accounts is shameful and is indicative of the lack of accountability it embodies.

A._Badger

vivatifosi wrote: »

I dunno Wookster. I am marginally more in favour of staying in because I'm concerned about what will happen if we leave. It doesn't make me pro-Europe in a cheerleader sense. I've already mentioned what my concerns are elsewhere re foreign direct investment and these are finely balanced.

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Why is it only the financial aspect of EU membership that people fret about?

Why does the desire of big business (which is usually multinational business) to have a single bureaucracy it can connive with, take precedence over the needs of small businesses and individual citizens?

Even if the fear mongers were right and we would suffer financially (which I would doubt - they need our market), does the right to form and implement government policy and law count for nothing? Have we really become a nation that no longer cares how or by whom we are governed so long as we are comfortably off?

GeorgeHowell

A._Badger wrote: »

Have we really become a nation that no longer cares how or by whom we are governed so long as we are comfortably off?

I think we have become a nation which is short termist and shallow, and where large swathes are incapable of grappling properly with important issues which affect their future and that of their children. Whichever way people vote it should be based on some proper understanding of the issues, and not on emotion, class prejudice (in either direction), or the influence of propagandists and spin doctors. Deep thinking is one of the most demanding of human endeavours, which is why so few ever attempt it.

vivatifosi

A._Badger wrote: »

Even if the fear mongers were right and we would suffer financially (which I would doubt - they need our market), does the right to form and implement government policy and law count for nothing? Have we really become a nation that no longer cares how or by whom we are governed so long as we are comfortably off?

I get where you are coming from there, however as we have a bunch of muppets in charge, whichever party we look at, I'm not convinced we'd be that much better off. Oh to have a few more people with experience of the real world in the house.

Incidentally I heard someone from Denmark on R4 as I was parking my car earlier. They were saying that the countries that aren't in the single currency see the UK as their cheerleader. They are very worried that without the counterbalance that the UK offers in the EU to the likes of France, they are going to be dragged along a course they are not interested in following, and without a big power nation on their side. Unfortunately I didn't hear their conclusion as I went and got my food shop.

micket

If keeping immigrants out is the reason for leave EU, the USA should be an interesting example. It is home to approx. 11 million undocumented immigrants, whose children attend free schools. While they have no access to benefits or medical care, they also can't pay taxes and can't contribute to social insurance.

I prefer the free movement of labour as practised in the EU.

moneyinmypocket

If they have jobs to come to I have no problem, if they are coming to live off backs of the tax payer then I blame the gov that allows this.

Wookster

vivatifosi wrote: »

I get where you are coming from there, however as we have a bunch of muppets in charge, whichever party we look at, I'm not convinced we'd be that much better off. Oh to have a few more people with experience of the real world in the house.

Incidentally I heard someone from Denmark on R4 as I was parking my car earlier. They were saying that the countries that aren't in the single currency see the UK as their cheerleader. They are very worried that without the counterbalance that the UK offers in the EU to the likes of France, they are going to be dragged along a course they are not interested in following, and without a big power nation on their side. Unfortunately I didn't hear their conclusion as I went and got my food shop.

Cameron really should be building alliances with leaders in the non euro countries - this will enhance his bargaining position greatly.

It seems he hasn't done this at all.

GeorgeHowell

Wookster wrote: »

Cameron really should be building alliances with leaders in the non euro countries - this will enhance his bargaining position greatly.

It seems he hasn't done this at all.

I think has been courting the likes of China, India, and Brazil from the trade standpoint. I suspect also behind the scenes there have been discussions with the Danes, Czechs, Swedes and maybe others who don't see themselves as part of the United States of Europe, and who might appreciate a larger country leading the charge on getting the outsiders a better deal when that happens.