New driver - can employer force me to use my car if it’s snowing

Lum

I would say unless someone is likely to die or suffer if the trip is not made then the trip is not essential. The snow was forecast way in advance so many companies have prepared and allowed staff to home work, though admittedly that is not feasible in all lines of work. Even if you don't have VPN setups it is still possible for people in some lines of work to physically take their work home with them.

The odd bit of bad weather always has an effect on business operations. If you don't like this then either get good insurance or prepare your business for dealing with it.

My company doesn't provide winter tyres for the company cars, but they also tell us not to drive out on company business in these weather conditions, and accept that if someone is stuck up in Scotland due to an unforecast storm then they're probably going to be paying a lot of hotel bills.

Caz's company doesn't even provide cars, instead requiring the employees to provide their own, unless the contract says that employees are required to provide a car capable of travelling in extreme weather then they can't reasonably require it IMO.

davids3511

Lum wrote: »

I would say unless someone is likely to die or suffer if the trip is not made then the trip is not essential. The snow was forecast way in advance so many companies have prepared and allowed staff to home work, though admittedly that is not feasible in all lines of work. Even if you don't have VPN setups it is still possible for people in some lines of work to physically take their work home with them.

The odd bit of bad weather always has an effect on business operations. If you don't like this then either get good insurance or prepare your business for dealing with it.

My company doesn't provide winter tyres for the company cars, but they also tell us not to drive out on company business in these weather conditions, and accept that if someone is stuck up in Scotland due to an unforecast storm then they're probably going to be paying a lot of hotel bills.

Caz's company doesn't even provide cars, instead requiring the employees to provide their own, unless the contract says that employees are required to provide a car capable of travelling in extreme weather then they can't reasonably require it IMO.

I agree really. Any work that can be done from home should be done from home when weather is so bad. I do think she did well to get into work when she didn't want to use the car (not that she needs my approval). Fair play to her.

I guess my beef is with people who use it as an excuse when really they could get there but agree with you that employers have to be sensible. And no, I don't have any sociopath tendencies.

Lum

davids3511 wrote: »

I guess my beef is with people who use it as an excuse when really they could get there but agree with you that employers have to be sensible. And no, I don't have any sociopath tendencies.

I wasn't suggesting that you did, though I have worked for employers that might have done.

My beef is bosses who think employees should be in the office from exactly 9:00:00 to 5:00:00 and not a second later and regardless of any personal or external circumstances/risk involved. That if they can't see their staff they can't possibly be working and generally act like their staff are untrustworthy slobs who are out to f**k the company at any opportunity... usually this is because the reverse is true and they think everybody is like themselves.

I also get rather annoyed with people who expect the young and/or poor to have the same financial cushions and experience level as an older middle class person. Just because me and my partner can afford the initial outlay for winter tyres, and have somewhere to store them, doesn't mean that everybody else can.

caz_cardiff87

davids3511 wrote: »

Ok, does that mean nobody need go to work? A free pass for the day. Surely getting into work is essential. Going to the gym/hairdressers/pub/footie isn't. What is the definition of essential? Doesn't Caz work for a Hospital or am I way off the mark. Maybe the Firemen don't have to go in either

Seriously though, what is essential?

I do work at a hospital but i’m not frontline staff i.e. nurse / doctor or anyone directly involved in patient care. Basically if i’m not there the worst that will happen is backlog of paperwork. Our nurses and doctors did a great job of getting in.

I live locally to the majority of our sites so walking in if needs be is never an issue, luckily the trains have been fine, buses have altered routs but have been doing a good job of getting people where they need to go so there’s no reason for me to not go in :-)

caz_cardiff87

Quinny wrote: »

I would have thought the same.

As the OP states that they need to be at other premises, would that not mean that their car is being used for business purposes?

If their employer needs them to be elsewhere as part of the job, surely alternative transport, as opposed to the OP's own personal car, should be provided.

we do go to other sites but if road conditions are bad then we don’t go - luckily our lists were short so it was no bother to anyone.

As stated before - we tried to get a pool car but because we are not frontline staff, and most of our employees live outside of cardiff meaning it would be a huge hassle for them to come in, pick up a pool car and carry on to other sites when they could just do a direct route in their own car. It wasn’t possible in the end and has been brought up many many times over the years

caz_cardiff87

Lum wrote: »

I wasn't suggesting that you did, though I have worked for employers that might have done.

My beef is bosses who think employees should be in the office from exactly 9:00:00 to 5:00:00 and not a second later and regardless of any personal or external circumstances/risk involved. That if they can't see their staff they can't possibly be working and generally act like their staff are untrustworthy slobs who are out to f**k the company at any opportunity... usually this is because the reverse is true and they think everybody is like themselves.

I also get rather annoyed with people who expect the young and/or poor to have the same financial cushions and experience level as an older middle class person. Just because me and my partner can afford the initial outlay for winter tyres, and have somewhere to store them, doesn't mean that everybody else can.

I understand what you’re gettng at Lum - i’m of the opinion that if you can get in then get in, if it means walking, obviously within a reasonable distance, or finding alternative transport even if it means you’re a bit late. Unfortunately, there are people who will find any excuse and do (i know a couple). So for people who are genuinely having a bad time getting in, it’s frustrating because you don’t want to be tarred with the same brush. Also there’s the flip side of other people taking silly risks out of their own choice to get in even if people don’t expect them to turn up or assuming other people didn’t have problems and making them feel carp about it.

But like you Lum, it’s the attitude of some people with the ‘well i can afford this, do this so you can to’ which really grinds my gears. I’m on 3 - 4 grand less than everyone else (two jobs were going when i applied - one the full five days another 4, my colleague got first dibs and took the five, i either took a 4 day week or joined the dole que!). I also pay much higher insurance premiums as a new driver and rent a flat so i don’t have the luxury of a 250 quid a month mortgage to share with a spouse or whatever cos surprise! i was still a nipper when they were buying houses lol. Similarly with credit - being a graduate with residual student debts the only options open to me are low limit high interest “build your credit rating’ credit cards which imo are great if you are desperate and can manage them but i wouldn’t want more than 1!

It’s not unmanageable and once my overdraft and credit card are paid off it will leave me a lot more flexibility with my dosh... until then i have to tighten the reigns at every opportunity to get my debt sorted sooner rather than later.... its just a shame that in some circumstances i feel the need to explain this to people for them to realise our situations are very different!

red_eye

davids3511 wrote: »

And whose fault is that? It isn't her bosses. If I was her boss, knowing all this palaver about getting to work and her being totally unprepared, I'd be looking for a replacement. Plenty of good people out there in this recession who would get to work with no whinging.

As for the one TELLING me she was going home early, bye bye too.

Two words for you unfair and dismissal add them together and you have just lost your self a lot of money,
well done :beer:

steve-L

It really depends on the job ...

If you don't like this then either get good insurance or prepare your business for dealing with it.

If you happen to be a bus driver, train driver, technician at a power plant etc. then the world would stop if you decided I don't want to drive in the snow.

As for working from home? I can think of many scenarios those saying you can work from home would be put out that OTHERS hadn't made the effort.

Hello, Police, I have an intruder trying to get into my house.
Sorry, all our police are working from home today....

Hello power company, I have no electricity
Sorry, we are all working from home today so we closed the power plant

I guess the fire service just needs adequate insurance?
Sorry, no fire service, our fire crews are working from home?

Can you fit winter tyres on my car?
Sorry, we are working from home today....

Can I buy some milk/bread
Sorry....

Hackman_2

steve-L wrote: »

It really depends on the job ...


If you happen to be a bus driver, train driver, technician at a power plant etc. then the world would stop if you decided I don't want to drive in the snow.

As for working from home? I can think of many scenarios those saying you can work from home would be put out that OTHERS hadn't made the effort.

Hello, Police, I have an intruder trying to get into my house.
Sorry, all our police are working from home today....

Hello power company, I have no electricity
Sorry, we are all working from home today so we closed the power plant

I guess the fire service just needs adequate insurance?
Sorry, no fire service, our fire crews are working from home?

Can you fit winter tyres on my car?
Sorry, we are working from home today....

Can I buy some milk/bread
Sorry....

So the world would stop if the busses failed to run would it?

I guess you've never heard of retained firemen have you?

Have you ever thought about those living next door to police officers who would get a quicker service if they worked for home?

And to be fair to you, its a bit late to buy the winter tyres now.

Lum

I said "get good insurance or prepare your business for dealing with it"

Police, fire, ambulance and bus companies could consider sending their staff on snow driving courses and fitting suitable tyres to the company vehicles.

My local supermarket organised the rotas such that the staff who were in work were the ones who lived within walking distance

My local independent tyre place closed for the day

As for the power company. Around here they use "proper" 4x4s as company vehicles with suitable tyres for the job. However it still took them a while to get power back on to my house as the route was littered with abandoned cars. Not much you can do about that, but they got there eventually.

My point is that we've had this going on for 4 years now (and I remember it being pretty similar in the 80s too) employers really should be doing a risk assessment and preparing for it if they want to avoid having to give everybody snow days.