Universal credit & conditionality

caroline1973lefty

Hi there, I've signed off (hooray) but not sure how long my work is going to last (short term stuff) and if I may need to sign back on in a few months (argh).

So.... can anyone tell me, when Universal Credit comes in to replace JSA (which I think in October this year, for most areas?):

1. i heard that UC will require people to undertake 35 hours a week of job seeking activity - does anyone have more info on this - what exactly will this mean, how will they measure it (aware of the debate about Universal Job Match being compulsory). Surely they don't expect people to spend 35 hours a week applying for jobs (that often aren't there) how oppressive and soul destryoing! Or will they recognise that training, real (not fake workfare) volunteering, self-education, and for that matter the time needed to keep oneself fed, healthy and sane on a pittance, are all quite important & more likely to lead someone back into work or self-employment in the end?

2. will the UC conditions still have an initial 6 (?) month period where you are allowed to restrict your job search to jobs that are in your field / at a vaguely decent salary, rather than be forced (on pain of sanction) to take the first minimum wage job that comes along?

3. will UC make any difference to how long before you are referred to workfare type stuff (not actually sure how long that is, or if it is on the whim of your advisor, never got that far, thank god)

Leaving aside of course the fact that I have heard the Universal Credit IT system won't work at all (and Group 4 running the helpline.. god help us...), but IDS refuses to postpone it further (even if it means already broke people don't get money, with whatever dire consequences). I don't want to worry anyone... but I am worried! And wondering how long we are going to put up with all of this !!!!....

M.Johnson_2

caroline1973lefty wrote: »

Hi there, I've signed off (hooray) but not sure how long my work is going to last (short term stuff) and if I may need to sign back on in a few months (argh).

So.... can anyone tell me, when Universal Credit comes in to replace JSA (which I think in October this year, for most areas?):

1. i heard that UC will require people to undertake 35 hours a week of job seeking activity - does anyone have more info on this - what exactly will this mean, how will they measure it (aware of the debate about Universal Job Match being compulsory). Surely they don't expect people to spend 35 hours a week applying for jobs (that often aren't there) how oppressive and soul destryoing! Or will they recognise that training, real (not fake workfare) volunteering, self-education, and for that matter the time needed to keep oneself fed, healthy and sane on a pittance, are all quite important & more likely to lead someone back into work or self-employment in the end?

2. will the UC conditions still have an initial 6 (?) month period where you are allowed to restrict your job search to jobs that are in your field / at a vaguely decent salary, rather than be forced (on pain of sanction) to take the first minimum wage job that comes along?

3. will UC make any difference to how long before you are referred to workfare type stuff (not actually sure how long that is, or if it is on the whim of your advisor, never got that far, thank god)

Leaving aside of course the fact that I have heard the Universal Credit IT system won't work at all (and Group 4 running the helpline.. god help us...), but IDS refuses to postpone it further (even if it means already broke people don't get money, with whatever dire consequences). I don't want to worry anyone... but I am worried! And wondering how long we are going to put up with all of this !!!!....

Its now October and still no where near ready. I can see it being postponed again and again.

1. I do not think that is true you will need to spend 35hrs looking for work.

2. There is no information on this, I would guess yes the same 6month grace would apply. But the way things are going they may change that at any time and as you ay you have to get the first min wage job that come along.

3. Again no clear details yet Oct 2013, if I hve missed or if and when clear details are available could someone post here?

I am trying to understand what it will be like when UC replaces the current system.

Take an example of a small family at the moment with 2 kids.

If this family was working 30hrs week but making no profit from the self empolyment, they would get about £100wk WTC, and CTC also about £100. They would get £30wk CB and say their rent was about £260wk as long as still no profit every year from their 'business' then they would get most of that paid. Depending on the area they may get help with council tax and a few other 'benefits' which will bring them in at around the benefit cap of £500wk.

If the family was not working at all it would be about the same but the JSA would replace the WTC and it would be a little more, but not much. So they may lose that anyway if they are near the £500 cap. But if they were on JSA they would not only have to sign every 2 weeks but come under increasing pressure to go on a work program or something, and all the other reasons why as the title of this thread shows many choose tomove from JSA onto WTC and not have all the hassel of JSA.

So when UC replaces the current system it should put an end to all those who choose to move from JSA onto WTC but do not make a profit. Either they will have to make at least min wage per hr for 30hrs, or their benefits will be cut as much as if they were earning that much.

Surely most would choose to move back to the first option and get the most benefits again?

krok

Dont worry it will never come into place.

HappyMJ

Whilst you should try and look for work as much as possible there is no way to prove you spent 35 hours on the activity. You might be a slow typist and it might take you several hours to type an application letter drafting it several times before finalizing a letter. Someone else might have quite a bit of experience with Word and have a few templates already typed which they can bring up customize and send off in 10 minutes.

spacey2012

The reality is, they thought they could get millions back to work before it kicked in , unfortunately they are no jobs and those they are are soaked by another problem they have lost control of, immigration and borders.
The System would dump over a million self employed back on the unemployment figures, as making minimum wage self employed is very difficult with fuel at £6 a gallon and expenses so difficult in the UK.
They are kicking it in to the Long grass on purpose, once a million extra hit the unemployment and job hunting figures, they will be a total and utter backlash and a election is almost guaranteed.
No government is going to last very long with 5 million unemployed.
Others that rely on tax credits will be dumped in to food banks and loan sharks, because wages have lagged behind the cost of living for well over a decade.
Industrial unrest and strikes as people take to picket lines for enough money to live off, hungry people with hungry kids can get very angry very quickly.
The Universal credit is the instant self destruct button of this coalition.
Will they be daft enough to press it.
Personally, I hope they do, I want to see the back of them ASAP.
Nasty bast*rds they are.

Lets be honest, is there anything else left they have not lost total and utter control of ?

AP007

My agreement says I will do 30 hours job searching a week and I am

Not on Universal Credit and has been no mention of it at my JC

FreeddyThomas

spacey2012 wrote: »

The reality is, they thought they could get millions back to work before it kicked in , unfortunately they are no jobs and those they are are soaked by another problem they have lost control of, immigration and borders.
The System would dump over a million self employed back on the unemployment figures, as making minimum wage self employed is very difficult with fuel at £6 a gallon and expenses so difficult in the UK.
They are kicking it in to the Long grass on purpose, once a million extra hit the unemployment and job hunting figures, they will be a total and utter backlash and a election is almost guaranteed.
No government is going to last very long with 5 million unemployed.
Others that rely on tax credits will be dumped in to food banks and loan sharks, because wages have lagged behind the cost of living for well over a decade.
Industrial unrest and strikes as people take to picket lines for enough money to live off, hungry people with hungry kids can get very angry very quickly.
The Universal credit is the instant self destruct button of this coalition.
Will they be daft enough to press it.
Personally, I hope they do, I want to see the back of them ASAP.
Nasty bast*rds they are.

Lets be honest, is there anything else left they have not lost total and utter control of ?

I cant see it myself, over a million not showing up on the unemployment numbers now suddenly showing up as unemployed unless they earn min wage x35hrs????? As you say political suicide.

It will be postponed or some changes or something you wil see.

If not your chaotic situation could prove true.

MacD_2

How do you know its over a million people on WTC but not making any profit from self employment? I am not doubting you its just is there any way to find out?

M.Johnson_2

AP007 wrote: »

My agreement says I will do 30 hours job searching a week and I am

Not on Universal Credit and has been no mention of it at my JC

It could be 2017 before you are changed on to UC. I expect it to be delayed and postponed again and again even replaced by something else by that time.


How do you define 30hrs per week looking for work? What if you have no access to the internet you may only be allowed 1hr per day at the library.

M.Johnson_2

I am heaing reports that UC will be delayed even further into the future, lots of problems so far.

[Deleted User]

M.Johnson wrote: »

How do you define 30hrs per week looking for work? What if you have no access to the internet you may only be allowed 1hr per day at the library.

Glad someone else has mentioned this, I was at an interview recently and the interviewer actually (whilst we were putting the world to rights interestingly) asked me what would happen if I didn't have a computer, he had a point what if you couldn't afford one and boy, he came back with same line near enough as yourself!!!

Thanks for the info, I wondered why the place with a green sign suddenly didn't mention UC! had to go to my council which is in another town separately to find out about LHA is it, (I may not need it now but missed out on a fair few weeks help) whereas before when my job centre were obv trialling it, the process was very different :mad: