The BBC's "Growing up poor". Poverty seen up close

GeorgeHowell

Wookster wrote: »

What does the labour puppy laura have to say about wealth distribution & mobility becoming worse under labour?

Let me guess, she blames the Tories.

No doubt. The hard left will argue that Labour's failing lies in not dismantling the capitalist system completely, reintroducing Clause 4 etc. For them that is why the gap is wider. The living proof of the validity of this argument can be found of course in the examples of the former Soviet Union and Maoist China, where a policy of state control of every aspect of peoples' lives brought about such havens of equality, prosperity, and happiness for all.

PaulF81

No such thing as poverty in the uk. People sometimes have it hard, lets not confuse a hard life with something else shall we?

The_White_Horse

PaulF81 wrote: »

No such thing as poverty in the uk. People sometimes have it hard, lets not confuse a hard life with something else shall we?

these people are in abject poverty!!! what is wrong with you?? some of them can barely afford the £8 for a packet of cigarettes each day.

margaretclare

I did see some of this, not all. As I grew up in the direst poverty a couple of generations ago I was intrigued by how much things have changed since my childhood. For example, I saw a young girl sitting alone in her sparsely-furnished flat in front of a large TV set, and I thought how much had changed since my single mum and her disabled sister struggled to live and to raise me. They were never still. Even my aunt, who sat on the floor most of her life since polio age 21 in 1926, never stopped - sewing, knitting, cooking (cheap cuts of meat to make nutritious meals, home-baked bread), clothes remade from cast-offs of the better-off women my mum cleaned for. The love and support that surrounded me and how hard it must have been for them especially after my grandad's death in 1948 and the loss of his state pension, which was almost all the benefit available at that time. Just at that age when I was at grammar school and 'needed things' like a Guide uniform.

I am not criticising these young women, just feeling so sorry for them. I'd like to take them by the hand, take them round the markets, search for bargains - meat, veg etc can often be found especially late in the day - and make some proper food. Buy some wool and knit jumpers.

I empathise with the young woman who had only a microwave and no cooker. I wanted to say to her 'You don't need pre-made chips, buy a few baking spuds and bake a spud in the microwave. Many a good degree has been gained on beans on toast or beans with a baked spud'.

Things were supposed to get better but it's the 'poverty of aspiration' that is worse than anything. All the information that's available has been lost on these young women.

PS: None of the women in the village where I grew up could have afforded cigarettes. Nor could I when my children were little.

Wookster

The_White_Horse wrote: »

these people are in abject poverty!!! what is wrong with you?? some of them can barely afford the £8 for a packet of cigarettes each day.

So says the child benefit scrounger.

Scumbag.

N1AK

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

Completely disagree. Those policies have been predominant in state education since the late 1960s, and have done enormous damage to it and to the country. It needs calling out vigorously, especially since it is largely politically motivated, in the interests of social engineering, and not much about obtaining the best education for our children

I think there is a difference between bringing attention to an issue with a reasoned, polite and supported position and ranting on a forum. It's been shown again and again that aggressively pushing an argument isn't effective in changing opinions and in fact largely serves to reinforce contrary views as they feel under attack. Regardless of what you intend to achieve I think the method you are using are self-defeating.

N1AK

margaretclare wrote: »

I am not criticising these young women, just feeling so sorry for them. I'd like to take them by the hand, take them round the markets, search for bargains - meat, veg etc can often be found especially late in the day - and make some proper food. Buy some wool and knit jumpers.

I empathise with the young woman who had only a microwave and no cooker. I wanted to say to her 'You don't need pre-made chips, buy a few baking spuds and bake a spud in the microwave. Many a good degree has been gained on beans on toast or beans with a baked spud'.

That's exactly the kind of thing they need (well maybe not the knitting): Someone willing to take the time and put in the effort to help them see a way out and take the steps needed to get there. The sad thing is that we aren't providing that and instead write them off.

Sadly too many people think that an individual has to be perfect or never make mistakes to deserve any kind of help; others don't think anyone at all deserves it. I think that kind of view ignores both the moral failure and costs to society this causes.

N1AK

BertieUK wrote: »

It would have been more rewarding to have chosen a company that could have given this young lady a position after training on maybe a part-time basis. Then with her past behind her she could have grasped the chance to prove to herself that she can have a future if she was prepared to work for it.

Because although she has got onto the first rung of the ladder she has now to go and look for work, maybe the powers that be that know this young ladies full history thought that this was the best move.

Maybe the company thought it would have a position when the placement started. Maybe no other company would accept her. We can't know based on the program. What we do know is that someone who completes a six month placement without issue is going to be a more attractive candidate to employers.

That doesn't stop it being sad that after putting in all that effort she will feel like it was wasted etc.

GeorgeHowell

N1AK wrote: »

I think there is a difference between bringing attention to an issue with a reasoned, polite and supported position and ranting on a forum. It's been shown again and again that aggressively pushing an argument isn't effective in changing opinions and in fact largely serves to reinforce contrary views as they feel under attack. Regardless of what you intend to achieve I think the method you are using are self-defeating.

You can think what you like. If vigorously expressed and strongly held views are to be termed "ranting", then to me it just weakens the case of those who do not share them, in that they would rather comment of the style of the posting and it's alleged deleterious effect on the delicate sensibilities of others, than trying to argue against it.

As you have decided to pursue this, I would tend to assume that you are in favour of modern, trendy, liberal, mamby-pamby, anti-elitist, dumbed down state education ? If so perhaps you would like to put up an argument in its favour as opposed to rather relentlessly criticising my posting style on the subject.

N1AK

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

As you have decided to pursue this, I would tend to assume that you are in favour of modern, trendy, liberal, mamby-pamby, anti-elitist, dumbed down state education ? If so perhaps you would like to put up an argument in its favour as opposed to rather relentlessly criticising my posting style on the subject.

blah blah blah rant rant rant. You're right I must be wrong! Whatever it was that you said has really changed my opinion on the subject, it must surely be an effective form of discourse.