A totally hypothetical question

stephane_2

trets77 wrote: »

And now we have a debate and a conversation.

Miss High horse (stephane) will not like that at all !!!

What do you think this is people? a free country with free speech?

now talk about something Stephane thinks is Meaningfull or i will have to get shirty.

I find actually quite worrying that the Credit Card companies gave me so much credit. i only got one of them to stooze the BMI miles (they are now BA miles) yet they gave me a 20K limit. Another one for the free cash on holiday and i got 10K for that one. Yet another was for the cash back and that one has 10K as well.

Oh and miss high horse on those three card i owe exactly zero

. I might follow you around on the MSE forum for a week and see if you like to sit in judgment on other threads as well.

First for the record it's "Mr" and not "Miss"....you got that right haven't you.....
Follow what ever & who you want on the forum....what do I care about it....

_Andy_

Eonel wrote: »

This would be hypothetical fraud, and if identified by the credit card companies you could be prosecuted. You would still have to pay the unsecured debt, and would have no further access to credit as you would have a fraud marker on your credit record. You would likely end up having to sell your house to pay the unsecured debt.

Absolutely not true. How would it be 'fraud' exactly?

Cornucopia

It's not fraud. (It could only be that if the CC contract explicitly prohibited taking any form of advance from the account and applying it to a mortgage - and I've never seen that).

Defaulting on unsecured debt is a frequent occurrence and there are well-established procedural and legal options available to the banks.

There are some merits to transferring the debt, especially if there are low-rate incentives available on the credit card accounts.

And if you have savings available, there's little point in not paying off the mortgage, either.

zebbeddee

It would be classed as fraud if you knew when you were going to take the money from the cards with the intention of not paying it back.


Also when you file for bankruptcy it asks whether you owned/ sold/transferred ownership of any property within the last 3 years at which point they would know that you would have been trying to defraud the credit card companies.

I hope that this helps

gglaze

Very interesting thread.

zebbeddee wrote: »

It would be classed as fraud if you knew when you were going to take the money from the cards with the intention of not paying it back.

In practice, is this something that could be proved in court, in any way other than, I suppose pulling up your MSE message post history?

zebbeddee wrote: »

Also when you file for bankruptcy it asks whether you owned/ sold/transferred ownership of any property within the last 3 years at which point they would know that you would have been trying to defraud the credit card companies.

Interesting. Ok, not to hijack the thread or anything, but...
What if the property (and mortgage) in question was based in a different country? Specifically, in my case, Poland. Of course I would also never consider doing this, and ask the question for purely hypothetical purposes. There was some mention of the ease of checking land registry, etc. Presumably it would not be as easy/likely for a UK card company to cross reference property transactions outside of the UK?

Also, if the limit is 3 years (for declaration of such things when filing for bankruptcy)... what if you sold the property, and then waited just past 3 years to default?

zebbeddee

[/QUOTE] Also, if the limit is 3 years (for declaration of such things when filing for bankruptcy)... what if you sold the property, and then waited just past 3 years to default?[/QUOTE]


I would imagine the repayments on the credit cards during the 3 years would probably out weigh any potential gain


I am a true believer of things biting you in the !!! at some point later in life and for me personally i wouldn't do it and as the original poster said, they weren't looking to do it, just asking a hyperthetical question

Norfolk_Jim

Its not such a dumb question if you take away any notion of transferring the house to the wife and defaulting on the debt.

I have a fairly modest mortgage but also a couple of quite big (c£16000) secured loans that a couple of years down the road I quite regret.

I've sometimes thought to myself, wouldn't I be in a more secure position IF I was able to pay off those secured loans and move the debt onto an unsecured basis - not with fraud in mind - with my family in mind since the debt charities warn against secured loans and say that unsecured debt is the lesser of my troubles.

gglaze

zebbeddee wrote: »

I would imagine the repayments on the credit cards during the 3 years would probably out weigh any potential gain

Possibly not, if you could keep some sort of BTs rolling at a somewhat decent rate including fees - it might work out better than the interest plus repayments on the mortgage, depending on the conditions of the mortgage (either way you are making repayments to someone)...

zebbeddee wrote: »

I am a true believer of things biting you in the !!! at some point later in life

Yes, karma is a b*** and all that, I agree.

However, back in the real world, for people with real problems, it doesn't hurt to know what all the options might be, even the very bad ones.

The term "fraud" seems to be getting thrown around a lot in this thread. Why? Is there something here that is actually (legally) considered real fraud? What, exactly..?

oscarward

I thought it was an interesting question as well.

I have an enquiring turn of mind (as they say) and often wonder what ifs.

I have no debt whatsoever and no intention of maxing my credit cards just before retiring to...............

but what if?

trets77

stephane wrote: »

First for the record it's "Mr" and not "Miss"....you got that right haven't you.....
Follow what ever & who you want on the forum....what do I care about it....

Touched a nerve me thinks.

You may go now Mr Stephane ..i'm done with you. :wave:


run along there's a good boy.