Bad broker or client?

MortgageMamma

Cute_n_Quirky wrote: »

In my past working life when my patients knew I was out all day at work I would find that someone would have left 5/6/9 messages between 1pm and 2.30pm. How they ever expected a call back is beyond me.
Similarly when doing home visits and it would be snowing heavens high, with snow building on the roads, I could guarantee someone would complain about my being five minutes late, or would phone me on my mobile at 1 minute past the appointment time. This was even though I had 2pm approximately on their appointment card. I stopped allowing my patients to have my mobile number a very long time ago for this very reason.

Also, I don't agree with the broker's commission being disclosed on the KFI for the simple reason that people will assume that every penny is profit. There are business expenses to be paid out of any commission. In my opinion the FSA should never have forced that into the equation.

When I saw my solicitor re a medical negligence case I didn't know until I got the invoice that his fees were £225 per hour. He wasn't forced into disclosure in this way. He has a business to maintain and forced outgoings which he has no control over. So do the Mortgage Brokers.

Hi Cute and Quirky

Don't worry about the commission being disclosed on a KFI - for one, you will earn every penny of it - I used to be very conscious when presenting to clients about saying this is how much I earn. That is until I realised it was not how much I would earn! When you take into account the cost of regulation, your network fee's, your overheads, tax (espec if LTD), NI, your pay/profit margin is not as big as you would imagine. It takes a few months of doing the job before you can work out on a case by case basis how much you will make.

Anyway when I first started I used to say to my clients "this is how much I earn for providing you with this service" then I used to go into waffle mode and say something really stupid like "I don't earn all of that, it goes towards x y & Z" almost apologetically!! I actually cringe when I look back now! :rotfl:

Now I don't justify my earnings and I couldnt care less if the client thought I was pocketing every penny of it. I just say "and this is what I earn for providing you with this service" and thats it

Its hard enough keeping a fee's free model going especially when you are new to the industry without a big established client bank, without having to justify every penny you earn.

When I first started posting on this site I had a couple of MSE'rs with reasonable sized mortgages approaching me for a full advice and commission rebate service. It was round about the time MortgageGenie was being promoted by Martin Lewis. If anyone ever does this to you, say no - I won't even do it on information only basis on principle. I did do one case like that at the very beginning but the client kept asking for advice and it was really difficult to say I could not give it to him and he took offence.

The proc fee's are paying you for your lifetime of liability on that sale - pretty meagre at 0.35% considering the amount of responsiblity you are taking

I have got to the point now where, if a client comments on my proc fee earnings I will not justify them - its difficult enough remaining viable on a fee's free basis if you are not a well known and established broker - anyone who expects anything more than fee's free imdemnified advice is unrealistic

kenshaz

moremoney27 wrote: »

Yes I am a FTB. I understand things can take time, I just don't like being told he will contact me and then doesn't more really. I would appreciate some form of contact if only to say 'I don't know yet, will get back to you as soon as possible' sort of thing. I suppose perhaps he shouldn't be telling me specific times. But some of my queries that have seemingly taken him days are really very simple, so much so that in my waiting for him I have found out the answer myself only for him to confirm it. And on the flip side he will be making a nice chunk of change from my mortgage. He has even told me it works out to be 2-3 times a standard commission, so I don't think it completely unreasonable to expect him to work for it a bit.

What will the adviser actually be receiving in commission, monetary wise ,have you an actual figure?

I agree absolutely with the FSA and the requirement to disclose the commission,why shouldn't the consumer be aware of the value of the transaction to the broker,absolutely essential,I find it difficult to understand how a non-adviser would be cynical about a KFI disclosure ,information is power.

The legislation is in place,and open and clear passage of information is essential ,and those advisers who feel that is a dis-advantage should seek another profession.

Rick62

I think it is absolutely right that consumers can see the commission being paid, most business have to put a price on their services and goods. Also if it were not disclosed it could be open to abuse.

I've never had a problem with the fee, nor had it questioned by a customer, even when, on large mortgages, the fee has been £2k to £3k (rare unfortunately!). My view is I might occasionally earn a extra good fee, but other times I spend a large amount of time for a couple of hundred £s or even for nothing.

MortgageMamma

Correct Rick

Sometimes the larger cases substitute the losses on the smaller cases, which is one of the reasons its difficult being fee's free to see what you are actually making on a case by case basis - hopefully, and I say hopefully because this is the first time I have worked purely for me - it all evens out at the end of the year and you still make a good profit

I was having this discussion with my DH the other night and he said it would be better if lenders scrapped procuration fee's altogether and all brokers charged a fee. I pointed out that all that would do is cut out the broker because all the borrowers would just go direct to lenders if they could not afford fee's - he then came back and said, it could work if the lenders would allow the borrowers to add the mortgage brokers fee's onto the loan on an interest free basis and there was a maximum amount a broker could charge

How's that for impartiality!?

If only eh!

kenshaz

Rick you are correct ,and it surprises me ,when you hear cynical comments from a consumer about FSA regulations ,how can disclosure be possibly wrong.

toonfish

i think you are a pain in the !!!!!

HelpWhereIcan

The issue of proc fees is one that could be discussed endlessly, but not really relevant to the OP.

His point is that he feels the broker is being paid to provide a service and that, when asked to provide it the broker makes him feel like he is asking for something over and above a reasonable level of service.

My answer to the question (s)

moremoney27 wrote: »

... do I have a bad broker or am I an impatient client? ...my broker is probably sick of me bugging him all the time with questions and so on, get the feeling most people just trust his advice at face value...I like to walk into things with my eyes open so will happily go off and research deals he's suggested myself. I appreciate I went to him for help but I see nothing wrong in making sure I am happy with his recommendation when it's the biggest purchase I will ever make (I hope!)....So I am putting up with his cheery manner having turned to exasperated sighs really,.

Where I would stand on this would depend on the information you are asking for. What kind of questions have you been asking.

Giving you all the information you need to make the right decision is part of a broker's responsibilities and something that most brokers have no problem giving.

However, I had one client who I made a reccomendation for based on what he told me he was looking for who then came back to me several times over a period of days asking my I did not reccomend a particular deal. This got a bit wearing as he was always able to see my research and why I had reccomended the deal I did and what other deals I had looked at.

He had asked me for a 3 year fixed and then asked me why I had not reccomended a deal that was a 5 year Tracker!!!!

Once or twice is ok, but it got a little wearing when my answer was, everytime

"well that deal is a variable one and you asked me to look at fixed."

or

"Well, I did look at that one for you and although it may have a lower rate, if you look at the table of deals I gave you, you will see that the fees mean you will pay significantly more in total over the next 3 years."

or

"I know the Mail on Sunday produced it in their 'best buy' table, but the lender withdrew that deal a week ago."

If this is the case with you, it would probably have saved you both a lot of time if you had just gone to seek a second opinion from another broker and chosen the one you felt offered you the best advice.

moremoney27 wrote: »

... He tells me he will get back to me at certain times and then never does. I know he has other clients and so on,....am I being unreasonable do you think? .

The adviser will have other clients to look after and the more time he spends having to justify his advice to you, the less attractive you begin to look as a potential customer (no matter how much the lender may be paying)- after all, what is to say that you won't just go and arrange the deal yourself once you have used him as a sounding board.

You also have to remember that he has a certain amount of professional knowledge and (hopefully) pride and is bound to get a little offended if you come across as doubting his intentions or abilities.

For example, if he knows that only certain lenders will entertain an application for whatever reason, he will get a little tired of going through a list of all the other lenders in the market that would not lend to you, but you want to know about because you have seen they have a 'better' deal.

If you are asking for particular details about a product you have been offered, then no, you are probably not being a pain in the !!!!. :A

moremoney27 wrote: »

... Would you as a broker be annoyed with me too? Would you also contact me when you said you would? .

Contacting people when you say you will is one of the most important parts of the job.

That's why I normally tell people I will return their call within 24hrs and try to get back to them before that.

However as MM says, it is very busy at the mo with lenders changing deals etc so he may have 20 other clients with similar queries.

let us know more about what you have been asking and we may be able to give you a better idea

kenshaz

asaengrit wrote: »

What do you think?
http://www.getwisely.com/_Bad_broker_or_client-main.html

spam all his posts have a link to the same site

Cute_'n'_Quirky

shokadelika wrote: »

So as a Doctor what were your fees per hour?

What has that got to do with anything? Or you for that matter?

Oh and by the way, the med neg was not against me, I am taking my GP for medical neg.

moremoney27

Hi, thanks for all the replies. As for questions I have been asking him, they have been along the lines of 'how much would that particular deal cost over 30 years instead of 25?'. 'have you had good experience with this lender?' (as I had never heard of them. He seems to have a bee in his bonnet about what is best for me which I don't fully understand. From the start I have said I want a 30 yr deal with a 2 year fixed period. He has never once sent me anything like that. He just told me I could afford a 25 year deal so I should go for that and a 5 year fix is a better idea. He might have a point, but I am budgeting around other areas of my life and so on and so specifically want a 30 year deal, I am flexible on ideas of how long to fix for, but he hasn't given me a reason as to why my reasons for 2 years are so bad. I haven't been mentioning other deals and so on. But he recommended one deal to me so I went to the lenders website and read up on them and some of their statements seemed to contradict his advice so I thought I would ask, he seemed rathered annoyed at this. I want to include tax credits in income and he assured me I could with a particular lender, but on their website it said you couldn't, when I asked him he just said 'their form says state your total household income, so you can include it'. But I am afraid I didn't feel confident in that and I did ask him to source a different deal, which he did. I can appreciate he might feel annoyed at my doing that one, but I didn't want to enter into a deal with a lender with any fear of not following their rules and so on.