Warning PCN......?

Kynks

Happy New Year - or is it...? :think:

I got a pcn on my car after parking in my b/friend's council estate car park from Southwark council on Jan 4th. However when I read it it says:

Warning Notice

This is a Warning Notice - No payment is required. This notice has been issued pending live penalty notice issuing in the area. Once live charging has commenced a charge will apply.

On the payment slip it says:
Warning Notice
No payment required

I'm confused...Does this mean they are going to send me a PCN/Notice To Owner, or is this just a warning note and that's the end of it?
I've gone onto Southwark council's site, but can't find anything re warning PCNs, and don't want to call in case it then gets enforced.

Paperbird

You can ignore it but does it say what you've done wrong.

pogofish

Kynks wrote: »

Happy New Year - or is it...? :think:

I got a pcn on my car after parking in my b/friend's council estate car park from Southwark council on Jan 4th. However when I read it it says:

Warning Notice

This is a Warning Notice - No payment is required. This notice has been issued pending live penalty notice issuing in the area. Once live charging has commenced a charge will apply.

On the payment slip it says:
Warning Notice
No payment required

I'm confused...Does this mean they are going to send me a PCN/Notice To Owner, or is this just a warning note and that's the end of it?
I've gone onto Southwark council's site, but can't find anything re warning PCNs, and don't want to call in case it then gets enforced.

This is not a PCN and it means exactly what it says.

There has been or is about to be a fairly major change in regulation and the council have decided on a short grace period before they start issuing full-on PCNs.

Last time I saw one of these, the council concerned issued them for the first two weeks after they introduced charging in an area that had been free to park before, so check the signs/ticket machines to see what applies the next time you are back.

HO87

Kynks wrote: »

Happy New Year - or is it...? :think:

I got a pcn on my car after parking in my b/friend's council estate car park from Southwark council on Jan 4th. However when I read it it says:

Warning Notice

This is a Warning Notice - No payment is required. This notice has been issued pending live penalty notice issuing in the area. Once live charging has commenced a charge will apply.

On the payment slip it says:
Warning Notice
No payment required

I'm confused...Does this mean they are going to send me a PCN/Notice To Owner, or is this just a warning note and that's the end of it?
I've gone onto Southwark council's site, but can't find anything re warning PCNs, and don't want to call in case it then gets enforced.

I would raise just a note of caution but only insofar as the council may not be looking to implement DPE on their estates - in fact there is as much chance that they will be looking to do completely the opposite.

I see that the warning was issued in respect of parking on a housing estate in Southwark. There appears to be an increasing move for London Boroughs - especially those its seems with devolved council housing (managed by separate companies) to look to implement private parking regulation/enforcement on them. I am already investigating seven and the detail I have received thusfar is rather interesting although I'd prefer not to go into further detail at this stage.

However, if the wording is as the OP indicates then I would urge him to retain the notice for future reference. To coin a phrase "One cannot simply penalise your way into Mordor"

The use of warning notices follows the pattern in the boroughs I am already examining.

Kynks

Paperbird wrote: »

You can ignore it but does it say what you've done wrong.

Not exactly. There is no actual contravention. It just states that I was parked in the estate. I was in a parking bay, so was not blocking any access or other vehicle.

Kynks

HO87 wrote: »

I would raise just a note of caution but only insofar as the council may not be looking to implement DPE on their estates - in fact there is as much chance that they will be looking to do completely the opposite.

I see that the warning was issued in respect of parking on a housing estate in Southwark. There appears to be an increasing move for London Boroughs - especially those its seems with devolved council housing (managed by separate companies) to look to implement private parking regulation/enforcement on them. I am already investigating seven and the detail I have received thusfar is rather interesting although I'd prefer not to go into further detail at this stage.

However, if the wording is as the OP indicates then I would urge him to retain the notice for future reference. To coin a phrase "One cannot simply penalise your way into Mordor"

The use of warning notices follows the pattern in the boroughs I am already examining.

But as this was issued on behalf of the council, should they not have some info about these Warning PCNs/notices on their website? Do they not have a duty to inform the public of things like this? I am still confused, although I know not to park in that car park again.

HO87

Kynks wrote: »

But as this was issued on behalf of the council, should they not have some info about these Warning PCNs/notices on their website? Do they not have a duty to inform the public of things like this? I am still confused, although I know not to park in that car park again.

Hi Kynks
Generally councils have a duty to inform the public of what they are doing but have a long established practice of limiting what is provided in areas they don't want the public to examine too closely or simply want to hide. In the case of statutory Penalty Charge Notices issued under the terms of the Transport Management Act 2004 (what is known as Decriminalised Parking Enforcement - DPE) councils have statutory duties they are supposed not to shirk. However, in the case of so-called parking on private land enforcement - which is entirely non-statutory (i.e. it is not governed by an Act of Parliament) councils have no duties to inform whatsoever.

I can confirm that Southwark do operate what they describe as a "private land scheme" on car parks within their housing estates and this is non-statutory. This appears to have been in place for some time and the fact that warning notices have been issued on one estate would suggest that the tenants association (or even a TMO) there has voted to join the scheme.

On the basis that Southwark's scheme appears to exclude all those except permit holders it is most likely that any so-called enforcement action (the issue of a Parking Charge Notice - subtly different from Penalty Charge Notice) is based on the law of trespass. They will probably claim that the notice represents a genuine pre-estimate of loss in relation to a trespassing vehicle being parked on their land.

At this stage you have nothing to worry about. As the notice said - it was just a warning. If you are going to visit the area regularly then it would probably be advisable to obtain a visitors permit (via Southwark's website). I mention that because it would seem that whilst Southwark are employing a private enforcement scheme to issue PCN's they use a statutory power (under s.99 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984) alongside it to tow vehicles causing an obstruction - that is not displaying a permit.