motorcycle finance messed up

antrobus

Garage_Flower wrote: »

The finance company wouldn't give him the money so he got his girlfriend to take the finance in her name. They have effectively misrepresented themselves to get the finance company to lend money to someone they didn't want to. Getting caught doing this can get your name on the fraud register. If the deal had gone through it could have lead to the repossession of the bike and termination of the agreement.

Still don't see the fraud myself.

(1) No misrepresentation took place as the finance company's agent (i.e. the garage) was informed of the exact state of affairs - "i did make the garage aware of this and they also had copies of her licence".
(2) I see no evidence of any intent by the OP to either 'make a gain' or cause the finance company any loss

dalesrider

Callam_nffc wrote: »

finance was never applied for in my name, it is in no way fraud, its no different to buying a gift of any kind on finance

the garage were fully aware that it was not my girlfriends bike and they said it would be perfectly fine

might i also add it was not a case of "if i can't have it, we'll just put it in your name"

I think the finance companys issue here is the bike is not registered (V5) in her name.

They may look on this as a way of fiddling them in the future.

You split up, she defaults on the loan and they then have a major issue trying to find and reclaim the bike from a 3rd party.

Of course I can see exactly why you want the V5 in your name, as if its not then ins will be more expensive

Garage_Flower

antrobus wrote: »

Still don't see the fraud myself.

(1) No misrepresentation took place as the finance company's agent (i.e. the garage) was informed of the exact state of affairs - "i did make the garage aware of this and they also had copies of her licence".
(2) I see no evidence of any intent by the OP to either 'make a gain' or cause the finance company any loss

The garage don't provide the finance, the finance company do and they are the ones lending money to someone they don't want to. The garage can say what they want to get the sale. If the finance company were to find out about it later down the line and repossess the bike the garage don't care as they still sold the bike, made their money from it and wont suffer any consequences.

In the terms and conditions for the finance deal it will state somewhere along the lines of the customer (in this case the girlfriend) will not let anyone else obtain rights over the goods... the customer will keep the goods in their possession and under their control and will not sell, transfer, lend or give the goods to anyone. Something like this is stated in all HP contracts so whether or not you agree it's fraud it's in breach of contract which if the deal had gone through would have resulted in termination of the contract and return of the bike.

Linked is an article from the FLA explaining 'fronting' http://www.fla.org.uk/media/081210_Q3_motor_fraud_stats

Tiggy_Wiggy

There must be alot of people guilty of this 'fronting' then. My hubby and I purchased two cars from Arnold Clark 4 years ago. The finance for both went into his name, as I was only temping at the time, and I became the registered keeper for one and he for the other.

Jules2012

I believe as long as the registered keeper is the driver then it's perfectly acceptable for the finance to be in the partners name.

antrobus

Garage_Flower wrote: »

The garage don't provide the finance, the finance company do ...

Yes, but the garage are acting as agents for the finance company.

Garage_Flower wrote: »

...
In the terms and conditions for the finance deal it will state somewhere along the lines of the customer (in this case the girlfriend) will not let anyone else obtain rights over the goods... the customer will keep the goods in their possession and under their control and will not sell, transfer, lend or give the goods to anyone. Something like this is stated in all HP contracts so whether or not you agree it's fraud it's in breach of contract which if the deal had gone through would have resulted in termination of the contract and return of the bike.

Maybe so, but that don't make it fraud. Breach of contract is a matter of civil law. Plenty of people breach contracts without committing fraud, which is a criminal matter, and requires you to show intent. Of which, I repeat, there is no evidence.

Tiggy_Wiggy wrote: »

There must be alot of people guilty of this 'fronting' then. My hubby and I purchased two cars from Arnold Clark 4 years ago. The finance for both went into his name, as I was only temping at the time, and I became the registered keeper for one and he for the other.

Exactly.

I believe Garage Flower has misunderstood fronting. To quote the cited source "Criminals may use the stolen identity of someone with a good credit rating to deceive motor lenders into approving a finance agreement for a car that is driven by someone else". No one is deceived if the lender knows the who will be driving the car. It's not the fact that the borrower and registered keeper are different that matters, it's not telling the finance company that they are different that matters.

In this case the OP has made no attempt to deceive anyone.

Callam_nffc

well i went to see the managing director of a large garage i used to work for,
it seems that whoever released the bike is going to be in serious !!!!!! for a start

he also started that it is very much the garages problem to sort where the money is to come from and how i will pay for it etc

rdwarr

Callam_nffc wrote: »

he also started that it is very much the garages problem to sort where the money is to come from and how i will pay for it etc

..although if you're riding around on a bike that hasn't been paid for then it could become your problem sooner than you appear to think

SeanG79

Putting the finance in your gf's name when the bike is for you is fonting/accommodation and IS considered fraud no matter what spin is put on it, the garage (agents) have facilitated the fraud and the OP and his gf have committed fraud.

The deal will not have paid out not because of the V5 or the lender becoming aware of the fronting, the deal will not pay out because the gf does not have the correct applicable license to operate the bike legally. This is newish for some lenders, but others have been checking the validity of licenses for vehicles for ages.

The garage rep who released the bike without confirmation of payout will be in serious "!!!!!!", but the responsibility to find a means for which to pay for the bike will rest squarely on your shoulders. You will end up being forced to return the bike to the dealer. Title (ownership) to the bike remains with the dealer until such time as full funds have been received. (V5 registered keeper means nothing).

Your gf can try to obtain a personal loan for the finance to pay for the bike, alternatively you will need to make other arrangements or face up to returning the bike to the dealership.

Jo_F

When we got my scooter, the finance was applied for by the other half and is in his name, Honda had no problem putting my name as the RK on the paperwork, saying that we are both insured to ride it (both of us on CBTs).

Not sure if if made any difference in that it was Honda Finance though.