Don't blame the campaigners for the end of free banking Blog Discussion

Twopints

nobblyned wrote: »

Why would anyone be happy with the cost of a service they use being subsidised by unlawful charges on other customers of that company?

I note that none of the "blame Martin" brigade have answered this question.

Or indeed this one:

Twopints wrote:

So, to continue your crime theme, you believe it is OK for the banks to make £billions of unlawful charges? And then, when they are found out, it is those who reclaim their unlawfully taken charges that are somehow to blame?

Or even this one:

Twopints wrote:

Why do you think that banks don't have to obey the law, but you think that consumers have to obey banks T&C's?

HACZ

Twopints wrote: »

I note that none of the "blame Martin" brigade have answered this question.

Or indeed this one:



Or even this one:

Are you sure!

MarkyMarkD

tomstickland wrote: »

No need for respect.
I think it'd be classed as a "mistake" rather than being reckless. Otherwise someone losing the keys to their car would be reckless too. I worked on the assumption that the online banking was up to date.

I think it's debatable, Tom. Why assume that it's more likely that a transaction which you thought you'd completed successfully hasn't worked, rather than assume that the online banking isn't "up to date".

It depends who you bank with, whether online banking is updated instantly for transactions. I bank with A&L, and just because you make a transaction online doesn't mean it's paid straight away, and therefore the transaction doesn't appear in your online statementing straight away either.

BUT it does appear straight away in your internet banking transaction log, and that's how you would avoid making the same transaction twice.

MarkyMarkD

Twopints wrote: »

I note that none of the "blame Martin" brigade have answered this question.

Or indeed this one:



Or even this one:

There is not a single successful legal case which shows that bank charges, in general, are illegal. The whole "reclaim your bank charges" thing is built upon supposition and interpretation of the law which has not been tested in the courts.

nearlyrich

I would rather pay a fair amount for the use of my bank account than see the banks making lots of money out of people who are often in dire financial circumstances, not everyone who incurs charges is spending freely beyond their means on things they don't really need.

I am lucky that I have a decent overdraft limit and access to funds to keep me in the black, often people get into a bit of trouble with a bank, unexpected problem with the car that they need to get to work, sick child who needs looking after. I hope all the people who are so adamant that people in debt and campaigners like Martin are the bad guys have every eventuallity covered because one day you might be glad there is a sensible limit on the amount a bank can charge you for a silly mistake.

nobblyned

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

There is not a single successful legal case which shows that bank charges, in general, are illegal. The whole "reclaim your bank charges" thing is built upon supposition and interpretation of the law which has not been tested in the courts.

The word I used was unlawful, not illegal.

HACZ

nearlyrich wrote: »

I would rather pay a fair amount for the use of my bank account than see the banks making lots of money out of people who are often in dire financial circumstances, not everyone who incurs charges is spending freely beyond their means on things they don't really need.

I am lucky that I have a decent overdraft limit and access to funds to keep me in the black, often people get into a bit of trouble with a bank, unexpected problem with the car that they need to get to work, sick child who needs looking after. I hope all the people who are so adamant that people in debt and campaigners like Martin are the bad guys have every eventuallity covered because one day you might be glad there is a sensible limit on the amount a bank can charge you for a silly mistake.

I wouldn't call the campaigners bad guys. I would ask that the campaign has a further dimension that educates people in financial management and gets them to accept that sometimes we can't always just go out and buy something just because our neighbour has one. Sometimes we have to save. Also just because you spend a no more than your income doesn't put you in a good and secure financial position. You must at least make some provision for the future by having an "emergency fund" for when the car does break down etc.

Mark7799

HACZ wrote: »

I wouldn't call the campaigners bad guys. I would ask that the campaign has a further dimension that educates people in financial management and gets them to accept that sometimes we can't always just go out and buy something just because our neighbour has one. Sometimes we have to save. Also just because you spend a no more than your income doesn't put you in a good and secure financial position. You must at least make some provision for the future by having an "emergency fund" for when the car does break down etc.

Couldn't have put this better myself. I wish MSE (on the grounds that no-one else seems to be) would try and instil some financial management advice in tandem with the reclaiming advice. As I have posted elsewhere, even at £5 per time, three charges per month add up to £180 per year which is money WASTED. In addition, does anyone else think that if the charges are going to come down, there is a possibility that Banks will be much quicker to give customers notice they are closing accounts on account that they have not been operated properly?

To try and pre-empt some of the usual responses, can I at this point say unequivocally that I believe the current level of Bank charges are extortionate and disproportionate to the Banks' costs in these situations and that there are people who get into financial difficulties that are not always of their own making. I do not know what percentage of the reclaimers would fall into the category of 'reckless/!!!!less' but from my own banking experience have met quite a few. Examples that come to mind include the person who I declined an overdraft - they said they needed it for shopping (I suggested if they cancelled their Sky direct debit this would give them the money they wanted) and the person who blamed their excesses on the last minute Spanish holiday that was too good to turn down (their second holiday that year).

Those cases stayed with me as worst examples on one side of the coin during my time in banking. In the days when I had some real opportunity to exercise control in lending I can also recall the husband who said his wife had been sent to prison (he knew nothing until the day she went to Court) and didn't know what to do. Between us we managed to keep their account out of the Bank Debt Collections Unit and keep them solvent - I regarded this as one of my best achievements in banking, far more satisfying than any sales and I was able to get back the outstanding loans in a reasonable timescale without impacting on their credit history.

HACZ

We've talked about the rights and wrongs of bank charges but here is an idea that might help all of us avoid them.

1.Divide your annual bills (include everything) into 10 - call this BILL
2.Each monthly pay day deposit the BILL into an account that will be used to pay all your bills
3.At the end of the month anything left over after BILL and any spending should be put to one side and call this SAVE

If you want a holiday divide the cost by 12 and add this amount to BILL
If you splash out at Christmas or any other time, divide this cost by 12 and add to BILL

I know this sound simple, I don't wish to be condescending but it really works. Each year you build an automatic buffer of two months, this should help with unforseen circumstances. It also helps with discipline (just like the £2 coin savers) Any spare cash can be saved and when it accumulates you can use it to bag some of the bargains on this site.

I'm sure that there are more elegant systems of sorting out your finances and avoiding charges but I'm just trying to be practical and helpful. Perhaps Martin can run some kind of article or campaign alongside the bank charges campaign - I'd gladly help if I can!

CVID

There is a totally simple issue here which is not being addressed by the "don't blame the campaigners" mob.

1. The status quo, with essentially free banking for those who stay in credit, has now existed for many years.

2. The only reason that this is now under threat is the campaign being run by the likes of Martin. Nothing else is on the radar which could have produced this scenario.

3. There is no 3. That's it, pure and simple.

Can anyone really blame the millions of careful budgeters who manage their affairs responsibly for viewing this campaign with a jaundiced eye?